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Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

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Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#81

Post by tdeck »

Y_Y wrote: post #73
raffael_de wrote: post #47

Neither ICEBlock nor Red Dot are OSS. Seems a little hypocritical. Why not provide the code on GitHub? Why not offer alternative download sources?

Seems to me like it would be a great opportunity to make a list of subversives, judt by exfiltrating their identity via the "app". Cooperation from the developer is optional. There's precious little reason to distribute as an app, except for exploiting the user. If all you wanted to do was show things on a map then the web is already well set up for that. In fact the apps are probably just embedding a web browser any…

> There's precious little reason to distribute as an app, except for exploiting the user.

This is a very Hacker News centric perspective; most of us probably use the browser on our phone for hours every day. But a lot of normal people simply don't - if it isn't an app, they won't really use it. I find it strange, but I've seen this over and over again.

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#82

Post by myko »

nsxwolf wrote: post #6
Waterluvian wrote: post #4

Is it illegal for Americans to track their authorities or are the corporations all doing this quite voluntarily?

It’s perfectly legal, but also perfectly legal for a corporation to choose not to sell or distribute a particular software application.

When it's removed due to the chilling effect of the government attacking our first amendment rights this gets murkier. Do you think they make this choice if the regime weren't going after their political enemies?

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#83

Post by myko »

Amezarak wrote: post #21
nsxwolf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many times are we going to re-litigate this? Until there’s a law requiring side loading options, you have the web. Everyone here was totally fine with the “gay cure” apps being pulled.

Most people also seemed to celebrate Parler and Gab being pulled/denied. It was perfectly obvious that the same logic could be used to do things like this, but many people seem to be totally surprised or oblivious.

The difference is the government's hands in such actions

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#84

Post by craftkiller »

Spivak wrote: post #65
craftkiller wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the old "I want freedom but I refuse to accept any inconvenience to get it"

If you expect people to take real-life inconvenience over an abstract perceived freedom you will be disappointed until the day you die. People buy computing devices to do things. If the device has freedom but can't do the things they want it's a really cool paperweight. Streaming services which lock you into DRM won over the slightly inconvenient but free thing. Your time will always better be spent getting governmen…

Oh, I don't expect people like them to take real-life inconvenience over freedom. I am just tired of them pretending they care about freedom, when all it takes for them to give up is having to use a "fiddly" operating system.

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#85

Post by myko »

EdiX wrote: post #44

Hopefully this will give people pause the next time they think about linking to https://xkcd.com/1357/ .

Why would it? The key difference is businesses / people making choices and the government coercing businesses / people to make choices the government wants. One is a first amendment violation, one is exercising the first amendment.

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#86

Post by nsxwolf »

myko wrote: post #82
nsxwolf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perfectly legal, but also perfectly legal for a corporation to choose not to sell or distribute a particular software application.

When it's removed due to the chilling effect of the government attacking our first amendment rights this gets murkier. Do you think they make this choice if the regime weren't going after their political enemies?

Yes, I believe they would have removed this app during the Obama and Biden administrations if it had become associated with political assassination.

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#87

Post by Schiendelman »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #49
K0balt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people are still under the impression that they live in a democratic republic under a constitutional doctrine of permissive freedom and the rule of law.

It's just a monopoly.

That is fascinating to think about. Could we have a model where there wasn't?

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#88

Post by Wowfunhappy »

craftkiller wrote: post #80
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how I would live my life without access to mainstream mobile apps. I have to use an app to pay for the laundry machine in my apartment building. At school—I'm a teacher nowadays—we use an app to mark student attendance during fire drills. Freedom of speech should not require living in the woods secluded from society. It is the responsibility of all of us— especially major institutions—to work to preserve…

> laundry Keep an old android phone in a drawer somewhere. Take it out when you do laundry. > mark student attendance If your workplace requires you to use an app then your workplace can issue you a phone that you keep at work. I don't use my personal devices for anything work-related and you shouldn't either.

I can't practically carry around two different phones all day at work, especially given how big they are now. (It's not like I work at a desk, I'm constantly running between different classrooms and other spaces.) The "work" phone would end up being the one I had on my person most of the time.

...but frankly, I am such a geek that it doesn't really matter for me. I have a tiny 11-inch laptop that I usually keep somewhere nearby, or I can VNC into my home desktop computer from my phone.

The thing is that normal people shouldn't have to do this! I say this as someone who does believe that everyone should become more tech-literate and capable with computers. One of the subjects I teach is 5th grade computer science. I don't expect all or even most of my kids to become professional software engineers, but I want them to know enough that they'll be able to make computers work for them instead of the other way around. This is one of the reasons I became a teacher.

I don't expect all of my students to buy and carry around multiple phones in order to protect democracy.

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#89

Post by Zak »

craftkiller wrote: post #84
Spivak wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you expect people to take real-life inconvenience over an abstract perceived freedom you will be disappointed until the day you die. People buy computing devices to do things. If the device has freedom but can't do the things they want it's a really cool paperweight. Streaming services which lock you into DRM won over the slightly inconvenient but free thing. Your time will always better be spent getting governmen…

Oh, I don't expect people like them to take real-life inconvenience over freedom. I am just tired of them pretending they care about freedom, when all it takes for them to give up is having to use a "fiddly" operating system.

I've been running Linux on the desktop for 20 years. I'm happily running Linux on a tablet (a Microsoft tablet at that). I run a third-party Android build with root on my primary phone. I am the ideal user for a fiddly operating system.

I put PostmarketOS on a spare phone and spent a good bit of time playing with it. It would be painful to try to daily it at this time, and completely unusable for many of the common smartphone use cases.

Re: Google removes ICE-spotting app following Apple's ICEBlock crackdown

#90

Post by y0eswddl »

craftkiller wrote: post #55
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please direct me to the general computer in a phone form factor that isn't some fiddly Linux gadget. What e-reader doesn't allow side-loading books?

Ah the old "I want freedom but I refuse to accept any inconvenience to get it"

Ahh the old "I'm going to pretend my utterly ridiculous suggestion is a reasonable and rational and expectation of the average human"
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