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Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

toyotatimes.jp

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Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#81

Post by thelastgallon »

thelastgallon wrote: post #59
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #34

My brother had his car (a sleek AUDI) stolen in front of his house. He left the key in the entry hall, and someone extended the range. Are current electronics (the consumer ones) good enough at scale to limit the time the round-trip car-key-car takes?

Electric cars are theft proof. No car thief would steal an electric car.

I don't understand the downvotes. I am just curious about whats the rationale. If there is a counterpoint, please downvote by all means, but make the point so I learn how to think better!

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#82

Post by slater »

thelastgallon wrote: post #81
thelastgallon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars are theft proof. No car thief would steal an electric car.

I don't understand the downvotes. I am just curious about whats the rationale. If there is a counterpoint, please downvote by all means, but make the point so I learn how to think better!

No explanation or elaboration on your claim that electric vehicles are theft-proof

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#83

Post by floundy »

DecentShoes wrote: post #7

That's great, but the writing is still on the wall if Toyota doesn't get serious about electric cars. With their current trajectory Toyota is headed at 1000mph directly towards being the next Blackberry, Kodak, Nokia or Blockbuster. I say this as someone who owned a Prius for 10 years and loved it, and have also driven their hydrogen car. The BZ4X is badly named overpriced garbage, not enough and not good enough. The…

This is hilarious projection of your preferences and market predictions onto every other consumer.

I bought a 2024 Toyota hybrid. I don’t care about electric vehicles and won’t bother reinvestigating them until 2034 at the earliest. I don’t see the problems with electric vehicles being solved anytime soon in the US.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#84

Post by omoikane »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #47
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #34

My brother had his car (a sleek AUDI) stolen in front of his house. He left the key in the entry hall, and someone extended the range. Are current electronics (the consumer ones) good enough at scale to limit the time the round-trip car-key-car takes?

I think a fundamental problem is that keys aren’t security forward compatible - break the keys and you’ve broken an entire generation (or more) of cars. The only solutions I can see are software based keying and a mobile app or legally enforced security guarantees. But the car manufacturers don’t give a fuck if your 3 years and one day old car gets stolen. You move to the next competitor, only for the same to happen…

I think the problem here is that traditional keys expect physical security, and this expectation is broken because key fobs are now wireless and thieves have range extenders. I thought the best practice here is to store the wireless capable key fobs inside Faraday cages when they are not in use to restore physical security.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#86

Post by octagons »

DecentShoes wrote: post #7

That's great, but the writing is still on the wall if Toyota doesn't get serious about electric cars. With their current trajectory Toyota is headed at 1000mph directly towards being the next Blackberry, Kodak, Nokia or Blockbuster. I say this as someone who owned a Prius for 10 years and loved it, and have also driven their hydrogen car. The BZ4X is badly named overpriced garbage, not enough and not good enough. The…

Toyota moves more slowly than many other brands because of their company culture/philosophy.

To your point about BEVs, Toyota started producing BEV batteries at their plant in North Carolina this year: https://www.toyota.com/usa/operations/map/tbmnc

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#87

Post by octagons »

addaon wrote: post #45
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #34

My brother had his car (a sleek AUDI) stolen in front of his house. He left the key in the entry hall, and someone extended the range. Are current electronics (the consumer ones) good enough at scale to limit the time the round-trip car-key-car takes?

UWB, used by CCC keys (iOS and Android; UWB might be optional for Android?) definitely is — TOF distance precision in the inches.

FYI - the inclusion of UWB (specifically the FiRa consortium secure ranging standard) was not part of the CCC Digital Key specification until v4.0.0, which only left its draft state very recently, at least in terms of automotive security standards.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#88

Post by jfyi »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #68
Buttons840 wrote: post #56

There's 2 things when it comes to security: Companies are responsible for their own security. You cannot try to hack them without their permission. Security researchers who do something like test the security of a car without the permission of the car manufacturer (like in this post) are committing a felony. Also, companies are not responsible (liable) for their own poor security. If they do something like leak the p…

> Companies are responsible for their own security. You cannot try to hack them without their permission. Security researchers who do something like test the security of a car without the permission of the car manufacturer (like in this post) are committing a felony. Not a single sentence here is correct.

It's phrased weirdly, but the op is describing an idealized status quo as would be seen from a corporate standpoint. It was meant to contradict itself and thus:

>We need to pick a lane.

I imagine op would likely agree it isn't actually that monotoned and this was done for rhetorical purposes.

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#89

Post by wslh »

sviruz wrote: post #85

The laptop in the second picture looks very nice. Thinkpad? Anyone knows what model this is?

X1 Carbon? [1][2]

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/review-latest-lenovo...

[2] https://www.synaptics.com/company/news/selene-lenovo-power-b...

Re: Toyota runs a car-hacking event to boost security (2024)

#90

Post by thelastgallon »

slater wrote: post #82
thelastgallon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the downvotes. I am just curious about whats the rationale. If there is a counterpoint, please downvote by all means, but make the point so I learn how to think better!

No explanation or elaboration on your claim that electric vehicles are theft-proof

I thought it was obvious. Charging (scoping just to US) has some difficulties. First, you need to know how charging works (110V vs 240V vs DC fast charging) and also understand what kind of charging the car you are stealing supports: https://www.power-sonic.com/ev-charging-connector-types. Also understand the various apps that are needed for different cars and how they work. The thief most likely may not have charging at home or at work (if they have a place of work, I'd assume they are not working at FAANGs, which have 2 - 3 EV chargers at each location). Then, when they are chased by cops, etc, they will eventually run out of charge. They can't do a quick pitstop. When they are charging, lets say at a Tesla station, the car may be electronically identified. But, most importantly, the media instills a fear of electricity (you can't find electricity anywhere except these things called EV charging stations and there are very few charging stations) and electric cars. Everyone is worried about range (range anxiety).
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