Social anxiety isn't about being liked • Hacker News Board

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#81

Post by goopypoop » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:00 PM UTC

epiccoleman wrote: post #36

BurningFrog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is controversial, but I think this is a mostly male way of expressing affection. Women observing this sometimes conclude that men are horribly cruel to each other.

I wish I could find the original source on this, but I remember reading a tweet or blog that I thought had a really good metaphor for this kind of "male friend ribbing." The metaphor went something like this: men making fun of each other are actuall y showing that they understand their friends deeply, because they know how to stab without hitting an organ. That is - in order to make fun of someone without actually hu…

I was shown around one job by Dave The Cunt. He was alright

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#82

Post by WalterSear » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

Trasmatta wrote: post #57

brabel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only some kind of men behave like that. I had many friends growing up and we never did that sort of thing, and it always put me off to see people who did.

Yeah, I don't do this at all, and I don't like being friends with those that do

By definition, if you don't like to experience it; don't like to witness it, it's not 'ribbing': it's bullying. It's crucial that the person being ribbed is part of the joke, and should be obvious.

It's very common for people to engage in the bullying, thinking that they are just ribbing; perhaps, never having experienced the safety that is required for ribbing.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#83

Post by sixo » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

flax wrote: post #69

Neither "wanting to be liked" or "wanting to avoid being disliked" rings true to me, at least as applied to my own social anxiety. I want to avoid being thought of at all. The idea of being liked is just as anxiety-producing as being disliked. Possibly more so. Every relationship with another person, positive or negative, is another cognitive burden to maintain. I would vastly prefer most of my interactions to just r…

The weird thing about "The idea of being liked is just as anxiety-producing as being disliked" is that it is an incorrect prediction of reality: actually being liked would. Thinking about it is really a different thing: it overestimates the stakes involved, it mistakenly invents "ideas of people" to do the liking which do not behave like actual people, and is unable to build any self-esteem by imagining people liking you because these imagined people are under your our control; being liked by your own imagined people doesn't "count" the way being liked by real people would...

The human mind is not really designed to handle under-socialization well, and seems to fill in the empty space with imaginary figures which fail to meet its social needs. Taken outside its natural tribal operating regime, it bugs out in all kinds of strange ways.

> the idea of someone examining my own stories and thinking such thoughts about me is extremely distressing

This is a very familiar feeling to me, and in my experience it actually is a fear of being disliked, or more specifically about not being able to control others' reactions to me. But the fear is so great and unapproachable that the mind cordons it "out of sight" of conscious feeling.

It becomes better to not be thought of than to expose myself to the possibility of others seeing me poorly, especially if I'm not able to defend myself and make the case for my being seen with grace. I suspect that it is over-exposure to human meanness and judgement and under-exposure to kindness and grace which brings about this expectation of others' dispositions towards oneself; this perhaps is the reason for the Christian injunction that humans not judge one another--it guards against this particular failure mode of the social mind.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#84

Post by sigotirandolas » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

elevatortrim wrote: post #34

I have social anxiety and it is completely unrelated to likeableness. I do not think people would not like me, I do not try to avoid people disliking me, that's not the point at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure I'm an interesting person and I'm confident people would like me if I could take the step. Problem is, there is something that physically prevents me from saying "Hi!" to a stranger. I literally cannot get my…

I assume it can be different for everyone. This post resonates with me, but my social anxiety mixes being sensitive to negative feedback and low self-esteem.

So, you want to avoid both being disliked, but also being liked - because this puts you in novel situations you fear lead to an even bigger failure down the road.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#85

Post by nexus2045 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:08 PM UTC

elevatortrim wrote: post #34

I have social anxiety and it is completely unrelated to likeableness. I do not think people would not like me, I do not try to avoid people disliking me, that's not the point at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure I'm an interesting person and I'm confident people would like me if I could take the step. Problem is, there is something that physically prevents me from saying "Hi!" to a stranger. I literally cannot get my…

Mine is similar to this. In addition the anxiety comes from me thinking that most interactions are banal and more about “trading good vibes and energy” with the other person rather than a genuine deep conversation, and I fear that my facial expressions will reflect what I’m really feeling inside - “ugh can we transition off talking about my weekend or the weather?”. And also because I’m not that witty without alcohol, but it’s almost like most of western small talk is based off of exchanging humor and wit, then laughing very loudly at the punchline. So my anxiety is more to do with not performing well enough to have this stereotypical exchange done smoothly.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#86

Post by goopypoop » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:08 PM UTC

xivzgrev wrote: post #49

cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

That's astute. I was always uncomfortable with this kind of joking. I felt threatened. The real reason was that I didn't have a good comeback. Let's say my nose was large, and a friend jokes about it. I need to say something back. And I could not think of anything. A low stakes situation becomes higher stakes than it needs to be. So on their side they see me struggle and probably feel bad, so they don't do it again.…

ur ma

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#87

Post by bluecheese452 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:10 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #71

xivzgrev wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's astute. I was always uncomfortable with this kind of joking. I felt threatened. The real reason was that I didn't have a good comeback. Let's say my nose was large, and a friend jokes about it. I need to say something back. And I could not think of anything. A low stakes situation becomes higher stakes than it needs to be. So on their side they see me struggle and probably feel bad, so they don't do it again.…

> And I could not think of anything. I've identified two approaches to this situation. One is to take the insult graciously, as though it's feedback: "Careful: you could put someone's eye out with that!" "Oh! Thanks for the reminder." (adjust the position of your head, as appropriate for your extremely large and dangerous nose) --- The other is to take whatever they said, and exaggerate it. This produces really good…

Another strategy is to tell them to fuck off.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#88

Post by balamatom » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

flax wrote: post #69

Neither "wanting to be liked" or "wanting to avoid being disliked" rings true to me, at least as applied to my own social anxiety. I want to avoid being thought of at all. The idea of being liked is just as anxiety-producing as being disliked. Possibly more so. Every relationship with another person, positive or negative, is another cognitive burden to maintain. I would vastly prefer most of my interactions to just r…

I really hope it doesn't make you too uncomfortable for me to say: amen to that.

That's it. Leaving you in peace now. Peace!

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#89

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:17 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

[deleted]

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#90

Post by sixo » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 6:17 PM UTC

elevatortrim wrote: post #34

I have social anxiety and it is completely unrelated to likeableness. I do not think people would not like me, I do not try to avoid people disliking me, that's not the point at all. Quite the opposite, I'm sure I'm an interesting person and I'm confident people would like me if I could take the step. Problem is, there is something that physically prevents me from saying "Hi!" to a stranger. I literally cannot get my…

I find it helpful to think of that physical barrier as your own emotions barring you from entering a state where the uncertainty as to whether you'll be safe grows too high to trust yourself to operate in real time.

The problem isn't really being liked or not being liked, the problem is the cognitive overload of trying to predict what will happen and respond to it in realtime, which is sure to set in when one's mental model of the potential interaction is very uncertain. Of course, if your brain quits in a conversation, the other person is not going to be very impressed with you, so this kind of failure carries social risk itself.

The way to fix this is to have as many interactions which are bearable as possible so as to build out the mind's mental model of itself and others in social situations. Gradually the danger just fades away. There's no substitute for firsthand experience; no amount of premeditating, ruminating, or brooding will fix this.