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iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

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Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#81

Post by ryguytilidie »

stickfigure wrote: post #68
sumukh1 wrote: post #5

This is awesome news (though it's been known for a while) for the top publishers who have: large download numbers, good AppStore SEO, and good screenshots. While I think that this is bad on whole for developers/discovery as we knew it, it might just help users. Most of the time, users are either window shopping or looking for a very specific product. Window Shoppers: "I want a photo editing app", chances are you are…

Just imagine for a moment that Google only offered one result per page. Do you really think this is going to improve the user experience? How often do you click "I'm Feeling Lucky"? The ability of Apple apologists to rationalize bad behavior is astounding .

Absolutely crazy I agree. The app store is for two people, app makers, and people who want to download apps. For app makers it is unquestionably worse, not even remotely close, an infinitely worse experience. The OP seems to imply that this shouldnt matter, because the experience for the end user is better, and then goes on to give no real reasons and even says that "it will force developers to focus on seo" as if that is something ANYONE wants. It's like people's brains are now wired to defend anything apple does no matter what. Getting really tiresome.

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#82

Post by chipotle_coyote »

bad_user wrote: post #78
bpatrianakos wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want this. You have certain tastes and preferences and expectations but you (and me and everyone else who reads HN) are not representative of the typical user. For a community all about entrepreneurship and building things for others you'd think we'd figure out by now that we are not the customer (unless you run some business directed directly at tech savvy people but you get my point). Also, I am astounded at th…

Displaying Picasa HD Lite in front of Web Albums does no good to anybody. And frankly if the developers have to do SEO because the freaking title is more important than rank+description, than the search function is definitely broken.

The example here was searching on the search term "picasa" and the search algorithm returning two applications that have that search term in their name ahead of applications that do not.

It's certainly possible that Web Albums is better than Picasa HD Lite, but c'mon. If you do a search for "photoshop" you will find competitors to Photoshop Express with higher ratings, but Photoshop Express still shows up ahead of them in the search results. Even more shockingly, when you search on the word "twitter," the official Twitter app shows up ahead of Tweetbot, and you won't believe what comes up when you search for "angry birds!"

Maybe this means the App Store is broken, or -- going out on a limb here -- it means that it's prioritizing titles that actually contain your search term over titles that don't. Maybe you think it's just completely insane that titles take priority over keywords and description text, but -- again, maybe this is just my crazy crazy way of looking at the world -- I kind of see the logic there.

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#83

Post by cageface »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #81
stickfigure wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just imagine for a moment that Google only offered one result per page. Do you really think this is going to improve the user experience? How often do you click "I'm Feeling Lucky"? The ability of Apple apologists to rationalize bad behavior is astounding .

Absolutely crazy I agree. The app store is for two people, app makers, and people who want to download apps. For app makers it is unquestionably worse, not even remotely close, an infinitely worse experience. The OP seems to imply that this shouldnt matter, because the experience for the end user is better, and then goes on to give no real reasons and even says that "it will force developers to focus on seo" as if th…

Not far from the truth there. Apple loyalties seem to produce the same kind of psychological effect as religion or politics. Rationality doesn't enter into it.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385502,00.asp

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#84

Post by bad_user »

ouriel wrote: post #32

the very first assumption of this post is fragile "Although Apple doesn’t make these numbers public, I bet most people search instead of browse through the App Store categories to find the apps they’re looking for" 1. This is really far from certain. actually the reality is that most apps who get massive downloads from the app store got featured or from the top charts when they reach the top 1. I never heard a develo…

I'm pretty sure that when it comes to apps linked to a well known brand (e.g. Picasa, Twitter, Flickr) or solve some kind of specific problem (todo, email, finances) do have downloads primarily from search.

Discovery by being promoted or top ranked only works for apps where downloads are impulse-driven, games being the primary example. Searches on the other hand are intent driven, initiated by users that want to get something done. And I don't think developers of such utility apps want massive downloads, they just want to make a profit.

Also your argument about discovery needing top ranking is circular. To get top ranking you first need discovery. This is where iTunes fails its customers - as it focuses on the new and the shinny, creating an environment where apps that build a reputation slowly have no place, which is why most apps in the app store are released in a fire and forget fashion.

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#85

Post by henriks »

ja27 wrote: post #19
alecst wrote: post #12

The number one search for "picasa" should be Picasa.

There is no official Picasa in the iTunes App Store.

There is, however, an official YouTube application, which was hit number 10 for the search "youtube", after a bunch of shady video downloader apps. If I hadn't known there actually was an official application I would've given up after swiping through the first five.

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#86

Post by bad_user »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #82
bad_user wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Displaying Picasa HD Lite in front of Web Albums does no good to anybody. And frankly if the developers have to do SEO because the freaking title is more important than rank+description, than the search function is definitely broken.

The example here was searching on the search term "picasa" and the search algorithm returning two applications that have that search term in their name ahead of applications that do not. It's certainly possible that Web Albums is better than Picasa HD Lite, but c'mon. If you do a search for "photoshop" you will find competitors to Photoshop Express with higher ratings, but Photoshop Express still shows up ahead of th…

If Google Search worked like this, I wouldn't be using it. The title is definitely important, however on Google the title is less important than everything else combined, and that's how it should be.

Also, from your examples all the apps you mention are above 4 stars and have massive downloads. TweetDeck may be better than Twitter, but the official Twitter is not too shabby either.

Also I'm sick and tired about apps with title-SEO. Twitter is a known brand, however if Twitter were to be launched today as an iOS app it would be called "Short-message your friends" or some crap like that.

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#87

Post by phil »

tolmasky wrote: post #44
tzs wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a buyer, I don't see how it is great for me. When I search on the App Store there are usually several hits in the results that are not at all interesting to me, and ahead of the hits that better match what I'm looking for. I want to see several results at once so I can pick which ones I want to look into more deeply. If I have to step through them one at a time with a noticeable delay at each step, I'm not going t…

This hilarious part is had they left it the way it was, you would have actually seen MORE results with the new iPhone 5.

I wonder if that was part of the reason for the redesign.

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#88

Post by jayfuerstenberg »

drgath wrote: post #69
jayfuerstenberg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're about to release your first app on the app store you're not qualified to understand its dynamics. Sorry. I believe this redesign is a small step backward, and some sort of step forward. Showing a screenshot is a good idea but users are notoriously lazy and won't venture past even a few results so it creates a feedback loop where only the best performers get rewarded, further fueling that performance.

> If you're about to release your first app on the app store you're not qualified to understand its dynamics. Sorry. Possibly. But it does mean he's more qualified to view the App Store from a user's perspective, instead of a developer's. The App Store is designed for users, not for developers, which was his whole point.

OP is thinking he can enter the app store and have his app somehow be better than all the apps that came before it to the point where it'll rise to the top in iOS 6's listings.

My app (KEYBOX) has been on the app store for over a year and in magazines and whatnot and I've ASO'd it to quite an extent where the sales have stabilized but penetrating the first few pages for most searches in various languages still proves challenging.

Users fall into roughly 3 categories...

1. Actively looking for your app (be it by name or function) and will buy right away.

2. Not looking for your app but may buy if they stumble upon it.

3. Not looking for your app and and wouldn't buy even if they stumbled upon it.

We developers don't have to do much to get users from group #1, and #3 is simply not interested. We want to be in front of the eyeballs of members of group #2. Apple's rankings are still a black box but the higher up our apps appear in the listings the more likely they are to be seen and therefore purchased.

The app store is designed to make money above all else and if Apple wants to keep it that way it needs to make sure apps aren't hidden in the catacombs of the app store. This redesign my end up doing just that.

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#89

Post by mangler »

eprom wrote: post #80
bpatrianakos wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want this. You have certain tastes and preferences and expectations but you (and me and everyone else who reads HN) are not representative of the typical user. For a community all about entrepreneurship and building things for others you'd think we'd figure out by now that we are not the customer (unless you run some business directed directly at tech savvy people but you get my point). Also, I am astounded at th…

No, this sort of blindly pro-Apple bull shit is what's wrong with current conversation around Apple. Are we supposed to roll over and shut up because the almighty Gods at Apple decided this was the best way to do? This notion that we should get down on our knees and pray (or otherwise please) the overlords is just wrong-- is it really so crazy to assume that Cook & co. could make a mistake? Yes-- large, publicly trad…

> "This notion that we should get down on our knees and pray (or otherwise please) the overlords is just wrong"

Yep. Totally wrong - just don't buy Apple. Kind of simple. It's not like there's no alternatives...

Re: iOS 6 Breaks the App Store

#90

Post by apphero »

Since the App Store search algorithm update in June, my apps have seen a 60% drop in sales. Before the search changes, two of my apps steadily made me around $40k a year for three years.

The drop in sales concerned me so I paid for external advertising and marketing. It did not help.

One of my apps was featured by Apple twice. Now when you search for it by its exact name, some free spam app shows up above my app.

I am expecting another huge sale decline starting this month thanks to the new iOS6 App Store.

I'm not sure how anyone can see this change as being rational. This change is as bad for customers as it is for developers.

As for me, I had a good run on the App Store. But the world is not ending. It's just time to look into other income streams.

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