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Don't avoid workplace politics

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Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#81

Post by [deleted] »

silvestrov wrote: post #48
exmadscientist wrote: post #31

> 5. Being visible. If you do great work but nobody knows about it, did it really happen? Share your wins, present at all-hands, write those design docs that everyone will reference later. And don't forget that when managers or seniors are involved, there's magic alchemy that comes from spreading the credit around. Suppose Bob works under Alice and Bob, mostly solely, accomplishes something significant. If Alice pres…

This is one effect that a lot of narcissists don't understand: You get more by giving some away. So you can get only get to the top when you spread coins around.

[deleted]

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#82

Post by jaymzcampbell »

exmadscientist wrote: post #31

> 5. Being visible. If you do great work but nobody knows about it, did it really happen? Share your wins, present at all-hands, write those design docs that everyone will reference later. And don't forget that when managers or seniors are involved, there's magic alchemy that comes from spreading the credit around. Suppose Bob works under Alice and Bob, mostly solely, accomplishes something significant. If Alice pres…

I've always used "we" when describing and presenting work done as part of a team, even if solo. There's a certain skill in knowing when to promote yourself, and how you do so. These days I tend to be positive in a group sense, and take direct specific ownership of failings. I may be lucky but I think this has led to a lot of respect from coworkers and c-suite that I've engaged with. I've never once felt like people don't know who is getting the work done in the end.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#83

Post by mschuster91 »

rossdavidh wrote: post #24

"Think about the last time a terrible technical decision got pushed through at your company. Maybe it was adopting some overcomplicated architecture, or choosing a vendor that everyone knew was wrong, or killing a project that was actually working. I bet if you dig into what happened, you’ll find it wasn’t because the decision-makers were stupid. It’s because the people with the right information weren’t in the room.…

There's also option 4: CxO was out golfing with some rich friends that happen to own and/or is getting kickbacks, so now we have to use instead of or just not using it at all because what the software offers isn't needed, but CxO doesn't know because he's out golfing, banging hookers and snorting coke all freaking day.

And yes, this kind of shit happens regularly - sometimes, people even get busted for it like that Netflix executive who got kickbacks from, amongst others, Netskope [1].

Let's be real: no matter how good you are at networking - unless you come from Old Money or have a wildly successful exit under your belt, you are not joining the club of elite morons that actually pulls the strings.

[1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executiv...

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#84

Post by rkomorn »

dfjfklei wrote: post #71
hchdifnfbgbf wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s all you see, you probably need to level up your soft skills. Certainly the things you’re talking about are real, and particularly severe in some environments, but there’s a lot of room to improve your influence without engaging in any of that.

You have yet to meet someone at a company you work for you who does one or more of the things I listed above to successfully advance their career?

I don't think that's their point.

I think their point is that you can have influence without doing these things.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#86

Post by dfjfklei »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #59
dfjfklei wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has employment politics ever meant "leveling up in soft skills"? Employment politics has always meant: brown nosing, throwing vulnerable people under the bus, posturing, taking credit for other people's contributions, blaming other people for your failures, and on and on. Or to use the language of TFA, "iNfLUeNcE".

And what, you think those are technical skills?

My point is that framing "bad politics" as a problem with you, or your employees if you're an employer, is absurd.

"Bad politics" comes straight from the top.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#87

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

> Share your wins, present at all-hands

Please don't. I'm sick of watching your Power Points.

> But they’re not willing to do what it takes to influence those decisions.

This is true, and it remains true for me after reading your article.

I 100% agree that your approach is an effective way to move your organization forward, but one teeny weeny detail you're omitting is that if you continue to do this you will no longer be an individual contributor and will instead be management. You will gradually cede all of your time to this cause of championing good ideas and will have no time left for doing any of the work yourself.

I think most of the so-called cynics know the role of politics. It's not that they are ignorant, it's that they want their management to take care of it.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#88

Post by scarface_74 »

mindcrime wrote: post #22
jitl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? > feeling people discussing politics are trying to solve any problems it's explicitly about how you need to work in political ways to solve problems at work. It's not about country-wide politics or something.

> Did you read the article? FWIW, the HN guidelines[1] specifically ask that we not do that. Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that". [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We can go by the guidelines or we can look at reality. It’s blindingly obvious that he in fact did not read the article and based everything he said on the title

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#89

Post by xpe »

scarface_74 wrote: post #75
rossdavidh wrote: post #24

"Think about the last time a terrible technical decision got pushed through at your company. Maybe it was adopting some overcomplicated architecture, or choosing a vendor that everyone knew was wrong, or killing a project that was actually working. I bet if you dig into what happened, you’ll find it wasn’t because the decision-makers were stupid. It’s because the people with the right information weren’t in the room.…

I as a self interested actor as we all are see nothing wrong with: 1) Since around 2008 I’ve had 8 jobs after staying at my second job for nine years. Whether I was laid off or chose to get another job because of salary compression and inversion, being able to get a job quickly - and it’s never taken me more than a month even in 2023 and last year - was partially because at now 51, I have made damn sure I stay up to…

Yes, recognizing reality and the incentive structure is powerful. Then one can make smart tradeoffs. Most people want to stay in apparent alignment with their employer to advance. But sometimes perfect alignment isn’t optimal for what you want to do next.

Some examples:

Some might want to work on an interesting project with a new technology, even though it isn’t a recognized fit for your company.

Some prefer to build strong and trusted relationships for referrals later.

Some people will pursue aims that are to the detriment of their company. *

It is wise to recognize the diversity of goals in people around you.

* Getting great alignment is not easy. Not with people, not with highly capable intelligent agents trained with gradient descent that will probably operate outside their training distribution. Next time you think a powerful AI agent will do everything in your interests, ask yourself if your employee will do everything you want, just as you would want it.

Re: Don't avoid workplace politics

#90

Post by rkomorn »

dfjfklei wrote: post #53
languagehacker wrote: post #41

When Jeff Hodges gave a presentation of his "Notes on Distributed Systems for Youngbloods"[1] at Lookout Mobile Security back in like 2014 or 2015, he did this really interesting aside at the end that changed my perception of my job, and it was basically this. You don't get to avoid "politics" in software, because building is collaborative, and all collaboration is political. You'll only hurt yourself by avoiding lev…

When has employment politics ever meant "leveling up in soft skills"? Employment politics has always meant: brown nosing, throwing vulnerable people under the bus, posturing, taking credit for other people's contributions, blaming other people for your failures, and on and on. Or to use the language of TFA, "iNfLUeNcE".

I agree with your description of "politics" as a negative/pejorative thing. That's also the only way I'm used to hearing it.

Hearing about "politics" in a neutral/positive way would be new to me.

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