> Given consistent trends of exponential performance improvements over many years and across many industries, it would be extremely surprising if these improvements suddenly stopped. I'm sure people were saying that about commercial airline speeds in the 1970's too. But a lot of technologies turn out to be S-shaped, not purely exponential, because there are limiting factors. With LLM's at the moment, the limiting fac…
Indeed you can't be sure. But on the other hand a bunch of the commentariat has been claiming (with no evidence) that we're at the midpoint of the sigmoid for the last three years. They were wrong. And then you had the AI frontier lab insiders who predicted an accelerating pace of progress for the last three years. They were right. Now, the frontier labs rarely (never?) provide evidence either, but they do have about…
Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
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Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#82Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#83> Given consistent trends of exponential performance improvements over many years and across many industries, it would be extremely surprising if these improvements suddenly stopped. I'm sure people were saying that about commercial airline speeds in the 1970's too. But a lot of technologies turn out to be S-shaped, not purely exponential, because there are limiting factors. With LLM's at the moment, the limiting fac…
Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#84"Models will be able to autonomously work for full days (8 working hours)" does not make them equivalent to a human employee. My employees go home and come back retaining context from the previous day; they get smarter every month. With Claude Code I have to reset the context between bite-sized tasks. To replace humans in my workplace, LLMs need some equivalent of neuroplasticity. Maybe it's possible, but it would re…
Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#85> By the end of 2027, models will frequently outperform experts on many tasks. In passing the quiz-es > Models will be able to autonomously work for full days (8 working hours) by mid-2026. Who will carry responsibility for the consequences of these model's errors? What tools will be avaiable to that resposible _person_? -- Tehchno optimists will be optimistic. Techno pessimists will be pessimistic. Processes we're d…
Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#86This is only because these projects only became consumer facing fairly recently. There was a lot of incremental progress in the academic language model space leading up to this. It wasn't as sudden as this makes it sound.
The deeper issue is that this future-looking analysis goes no deeper than drawing a line connecting a few points. COVID is a really interesting comparison, because in epidemiology the exponential model comes from us understanding disease transmission. It is also not actually exponential, as the population becomes saturated the transmission rate slows (it is worth noting that unbounded exponential growth doesn't really seem to exist in nature). Drawing an exponential line like this doesn't really add anything interesting. When you do a regression you need to pick the model that best represents your system.
This is made even worse because this uses benchmarks and coming up with good benchmarks is actually an important part of the AI problem. AI is really good at improving things we can measure so it makes total sense that it will crush any benchmark we throw at it eventually, but there will always be some difference between benchmarks and reality. I would argue that as you are trying to benchmark more subtle things it becomes much harder to make a benchmark. This is just a conjecture on my end but if something like this is possible it means you need to rule it out when modeling AI progress.
There are also economic incentives to always declare percent increases in progress at a regular schedule.
Will AI ever get this advanced? Maybe, maybe even as fast as the author says, but this just isn't a compelling case for it.
Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's possible to understand both exponential and limiting behavior at the same time. I work in an office full of scientists. Our team scrammed the workplace on March 10, 2020. To the scientists, it was intuitively obvious that the curve could not surpass 100% of the population. An exponential curve with no turning point is almost always seen as a sure sign that something is wrong with your model. But we didn't have a…
I'm curious as to whether the consensus is that the observed behaviour of COVID waves was ever fully and satisfactorily explained - the tend to grow exponentially but then seemingly saturate at a much lower point than a naïve look at the curve might suggest?
Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#88> Given consistent trends of exponential performance improvements over many years and across many industries, it would be extremely surprising if these improvements suddenly stopped. I'm sure people were saying that about commercial airline speeds in the 1970's too. But a lot of technologies turn out to be S-shaped, not purely exponential, because there are limiting factors. With LLM's at the moment, the limiting fac…
They'd be wrong, of course - for not realizing demand is a limiting factor here. Airline speeds plateaued not because we couldn't make planes go faster anymore, but because no one wanted them to go faster.
This is partially economical and partially social factor - transit times are bucketed by what they enable people to do. It makes little difference if going from London to New York takes 8 hours instead of 12 - it's still in the "multi-day business trip" bucket (even 6 hours goes into that bucket, once you add airport overhead). Now, if you could drop that to 3 hours, like Concorde did[0], that finally moves it into "hop over for a meet, fly back the same day" bucket, and then business customers start paying attention[1].
For various technical, legal and social reasons, we didn't manage to cross that chasm before money for R&D dried out. Still, the trend continued anyway - in military aviation and, later, in supersonic missiles.
With AI, the demand is extreme and only growing, and it shows no sign of being structured into classes with large thresholds between them - in fact, models are improving faster than we're able to put them to any use; even if we suddenly hit a limit now and couldn't train even better models anymore, we have decades of improvements to extract just from learning how to properly apply the models we have. But there's no sign we're about to hit a wall with training any time soon.
Airline speeds are inherently a bad example for the argument you're making, but in general, I don't think pointing out S-curves is all that useful. As you correctly observe:
> But a lot of technologies turn out to be S-shaped, not purely exponential, because there are limiting factors.
But, what happens when one technology - or rather, one metric of that technology - stops improving? Something else starts - another metric of that technology, or something built on top of it, or something that was enabled by it. The exponent is S-curves on top of S-curves, all the way down, but how long that exponent is depends on what you consider in scope. So, a matter of accounting. So yeah, AI progress can flatten tomorrow or continue exponentially for the next couple years - depending on how narrowly you define "AI progress".
Ergo, not all that useful.
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[0] - https://simpleflying.com/concorde-fastest-transatlantic-cros...
[1] - This is why Elon Musk wasn't immediately laughed out of the room after proposing using Starship for moving people and cargo across the Earth, back in 2017. Hopping between cities on an ICBM sounds borderline absurd for many reasons, but it also promised cutting flight time to less than one hour between any two points on Earth, which put it a completely new bucket, even more interesting for businesses.
Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#89Exponential curves don't last for long fortunately, or the universe would have turned into a quark soup. The example of COVID is especially ironic, considering it stopped being a real concern within 3 years of its advent despite the exponential growth in the early years. Those who understand exponentials should also try to understand stock and flow.
Exponentials exist in their environment. Didn't Covid stop because we ran out of people to infect. Of course it can't keep going exponential, because there aren't exponential people to infect. What is this limit on AI? It is technology, energy, something. All these things can be over-come, to keep the exponential going. And of course, systems also break at the exponential. Maybe AI is stopped by the world economy col…
Gulf money, for one. DoD budget would be another.
Booms are economic phenomena, not technological phenomena. When looking for a limiting factor of a boom, think about the money taps.
Re: Failing to Understand the Exponential, Again
#90We should probably expect compute to get cheaper at the same time, so that’s performance increases with lowering costs. Even after things flatline for performance you would expect lowering costs of inference.
Without specific evidence it’s also unlikely you randomly pick the point on a sigmoid where things change.