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Just let me select text

aartaka.me

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Re: Just let me select text

#81

Post by ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 »

csmantle wrote: post #72
catapart wrote: post #21

As a web dev, I fully agree with this, but with a huge exception: clickable text. Anything that is meant to be read as content should absolutely, without fail, be selectable and copyable (assuming appropriate permissions). But stuff like tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles - things meant for the user to click on - can, and usually should , prevent text selection. It is super annoying to be clicking back a…

I sometimes shop on Japanese webstores for CDs and merch. Many of these sites are actually where natives buy stuff, so few to no translations are available there. It's a routine for me to copy the Japanese on the nav bar to a translator, then get a list like "Cart Orders Account Help". Another example for buttons. Assuming I don't speak Chinese, how could I know what "下单" and "返回" mean without copy-pasting them into…

I think a way to resolve things like this is to have media features.

For example:

  @media(prefers-user-select: all){ * {user-select: all;} }
But that wouldn't guarantee you could select text on an interactive element, plenty of other things could prevent it.

If it was an established known issue, then maybe people would do something like:

   :not(:lang('base-lang')) { * {user-select: all;}  }
It looks like there are plenty of extensions for this:

- https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/user-select-all/aoh...

- https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/enable-user-select/...

- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/select-like-a...

- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-select/

Re: Just let me select text

#82

Post by Arainach »

catapart wrote: post #53
whstl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% disagree. Not everyone is fluent in every language, and not every website works perfectly with the browser's translator. There will be situations where people will want to translate that ONE word that is actually in a button or tab, and isn't selectable because someone thought they knew better.

isn't selectable because it breaks the UX for keyboard-only users. Has nothing to do with "thinking" anything. It's about testing with accessibility parameters and knowing* what practical problems occur. If you really need to translate ONE WORD, it's not that onerous to type it. You're bringing edge-case hypotheticals to a discussion about practical functionality.

>not that onerous to type it

If the word uses the exact character set on your keyboard, sure. How am I going to type Kanji?

Re: Just let me select text

#83

Post by catapart »

whstl wrote: post #71
catapart wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use a mouse to click inside of a word link (like "threads") in the HN header. Try to drag to highlight. Note that the link tries to drag instead of highlighting. This is default behavior for anchors because of the issues that it would otherwise cause with the whole selection API. Alternatively, set your cursor at the end of the header in the empty space, and drag your mouse backward to highlight the items. At that po…

Then I don't think the article is advocating for what you think it is. You are saying "tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles [...] should, prevent text selection". The website is advocating for not disabling selection, not for enabling in random places.

I don't think you understand the technical applications that the website is advocating for. I can appreciate that the technicalities are frustrating, but the web works the way it works, for better or worse.

Re: Just let me select text

#84

Post by whstl »

catapart wrote: post #66
whstl wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already asked below, how and where does it break? Hacker News is fully selectable, and still fully useable with the keyboard. > it's not that onerous to type it. Yes it is, if I don't even know what the letters are. Not every country uses the latin alphabet. And not every people coming to latin-alphabet countries know what those letters are.

Give me an example of a real-world use case where this caused you an issue, and I'll show you where their UX design is poorly made, rather than a need for selectable text in a clickable element.

Sure, I had one recently.

There is a certain page of one of the Bundesagentur für Arbeit websites that doesn't play well with automatic translation.

I speak B2 level German, but even then some of the technical terms are still complicated or unknown for me. This included one very long German word that was in a BIG RED button and the text in the big red button was not selectable, in the manner described in the article.

Re: Just let me select text

#85

Post by catapart »

Ghoelian wrote: post #80
catapart wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want to translate "My Account" into another language? And, more pertinently, why should I support it, at the expense of keyboard-only users?

> Why would you want to translate "My Account" into another language? When you don't know the language or what "My Account" means? Not everyone speaks English.

And you also can't understand the icon? And the context? And the translations I provided?

Re: Just let me select text

#86

Post by Ukv »

catapart wrote: post #60
whstl wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's that behavior? Do you have an example of a website where selectable text makes keyboard navigation not possible? Could this be a browser problem? I can tab between links here in HN and it's perfectly also selectable.

Use a mouse to click inside of a word link (like "threads") in the HN header. Try to drag to highlight. Note that the link tries to drag instead of highlighting. This is default behavior for anchors because of the issues that it would otherwise cause with the whole selection API. Alternatively, set your cursor at the end of the header in the empty space, and drag your mouse backward to highlight the items. At that po…

> Use a mouse to click inside of a word link (like "threads") in the HN header. Try to drag to highlight. Note that the link tries to drag instead of highlighting. This is default behavior for anchors because of the issues that it would otherwise cause with the whole selection API.

You can drag slightly above/below to select it, or use shift + arrow keys. I personally use a plugin[0] to allow dragging within the text too, and haven't noticed any issues.

[0]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/drag-select-l...

> Note that this is default browser behavior [...] This is the thing I'm advocating for.

If you're just advocating for the default browser behaviour, which does somewhat allow selection of link text, then that may be worth clarifying above - since I think people are interpreting your comments as advocating for those buttons that prevent text selection entirely (and I'm not really sure how else to interpret "the default behavior should at the very least be mitigated").

Re: Just let me select text

#87

Post by whstl »

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #79
whstl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% disagree. Not everyone is fluent in every language, and not every website works perfectly with the browser's translator. There will be situations where people will want to translate that ONE word that is actually in a button or tab, and isn't selectable because someone thought they knew better.

That is a i18n issue with the website itself? Or are you saying you know a good portion of a language, but you aren't fluent, so you read it in whatever the default language is, by default, without translating the page or using it in your native language?

Depends. Sometimes I know the language partially, sometimes I can move around using pure context, and other times translation is possible in most pages.

Disabling selection in non-textual parts of websites is unfortunately something that happens quite frequently, but people rarely notice.

This is naturally for websites without i18n. Very common especially in government and public websites.

Re: Just let me select text

#88

Post by csmantle »

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #81
csmantle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes shop on Japanese webstores for CDs and merch. Many of these sites are actually where natives buy stuff, so few to no translations are available there. It's a routine for me to copy the Japanese on the nav bar to a translator, then get a list like "Cart Orders Account Help". Another example for buttons. Assuming I don't speak Chinese, how could I know what "下单" and "返回" mean without copy-pasting them into…

I think a way to resolve things like this is to have media features. For example: @media(prefers-user-select: all){ * {user-select: all;} } But that wouldn't guarantee you could select text on an interactive element, plenty of other things could prevent it. If it was an established known issue, then maybe people would do something like: :not(:lang('base-lang')) { * {user-select: all;} } It looks like there are plenty…

Yeah that's possible for us geeks ;) But UX talks about how everyone interacts with our site. We couldn't just ask all visitors to be experts.

Re: Just let me select text

#89

Post by nixosbestos »

Airbnb hosts that put textual descriptions with the address, and it only lets you copy the full text. Google Messages doesn't let you select OTP out of the text, you literally have to copy paste it to Gmail, then copy the code out.

Android has a nice feature though, you can go into multitask view and hit "Select" and select any visible text for copy. Except that WHATSAPP BLOCKS IT FOR BUSINESS ACCOUNTS. You know, the kind that are likely in a local language, making it impossible to translate.

I hate tech so much, it makes me irrationally angry. So much busy work to make users' lives markedly WORSE.

Re: Just let me select text

#90

Post by whstl »

catapart wrote: post #83
whstl wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I don't think the article is advocating for what you think it is. You are saying "tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles [...] should, prevent text selection". The website is advocating for not disabling selection, not for enabling in random places.

I don't think you understand the technical applications that the website is advocating for. I can appreciate that the technicalities are frustrating, but the web works the way it works, for better or worse.

Nope.

I am saying the web should work the way it is, like Hacker News does, as I already have brought up elsewhere.

You are saying "tab headers, buttons, or even text-sparse tiles [...] should, prevent text selection".

The article is saying the same thing I am. Basically don't do `user-select: none;`. The example is itself in the article's CSS.

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