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EU age verification app not planning desktop support

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Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#81

Post by IlikeKitties »

disruptiveink wrote: post #45
baq wrote: post #5

This is hardware attestation in a nutshell: a double edged sword, and a sharp one at that. The biggest issue is that the attestation hardware and the application client is the same device with the same manufacturer, who also happens to have a slight conflict of interest between monetizing customers and preserving any sort of privacy. IMHO the pro-attestation forces are so overwhelming that we should all cherish the m…

The insane question here is, why would the EU mandate hardware attestation controlled by two private American companies in order to access services? That seems completely contrary to the spirit of EU laws and regulations, which tend to be about protecting the consumer, preventing monopolies, ensuring people can generally live their lives where all things that are mandatory are owned and ran by the state and foster a…

> The insane question here is, why would the EU mandate hardware attestation controlled by two private American companies in order to access services?

Because this is being pushed by lobbyists to use hardware attestation to make it piratically mandatory for every citizen in the EU to be registered to either Apple or Google with a real id for all non-trivial online interactions at all times. The people behind this push neither have the technical knowledge nor care in the slightest that this is the consequence.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#82

Post by j0057 »

bilekas wrote: post #3

This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. > Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. What I would like to take from this is that, by their own definition, desktop apps are out of scope for Age Verification. So does that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications' instead of everything being a web service ? One can dream perhaps. Until then…

> Also this will completely disable any new phone OS' being developed. Why would anyone bother when you can't verify your wallet to do anything online.

This already the case today, you can't run your bank's app or government eID apps on anything but Google or Apple devices.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#83

Post by jeroenhd »

amelius wrote: post #18

Something tells me the granny on the bus can verify her age by going to the local service desk.

My experience with digitalisation is that the optional physical service desks quickly start disappearing once the younger generations start using digital equivalents.

Card payments and digital banking have closed most bank offices outside the larger cities. Mail dropoff boxes are slowly dying out. Paper bank invoices now cost extra (an unreasonable amount extra).

Granny may be able to verify her age, but the service desk won't necessarily be local.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#85

Post by sjw987 »

qiine wrote: post #7
bilekas wrote: post #3

This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. > Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. What I would like to take from this is that, by their own definition, desktop apps are out of scope for Age Verification. So does that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications' instead of everything being a web service ? One can dream perhaps. Until then…

This read more like "we thought pc was a dead relic of the past" sadly

To me it reads that, since many people already believe this is more about tracking than safety, they are focusing on a device which is the perfect surveillance system, and which conveniently already accounts for 7+ hours of many peoples daily computer/internet interaction.

A desktop computer doesn't necessarily have a microphone or camera, and doesn't necessarily have to be connected to the internet. I'd wager most crime, including that which affects children is done on "disconnected devices" in this sense.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#86

Post by mrweasel »

ktosobcy wrote: post #61
qiine wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This read more like "we thought pc was a dead relic of the past" sadly

Well, looking around I see more people using smartphones for anything and even not having a PC…

I've seen this as well. It's getting increasingly normal, but I cannot imagine doing the same myself.

There's a much bigger likelihood of me going back to a feature-phone, compared to me starting to use my phone for anything but the absolute basics.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#87

Post by sjw987 »

pessimizer wrote: post #15
cenamus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further forcing everybody to have their phone on person at all times

I've been saying this for years: eventually not having your phone on you and powered up at all times will not be a crime, but it will be grounds for questioning and search. One day, there will be a knock on your door. "Good morning, this is the police. Is there something wrong with your phone? Is your phone broken? Can we provide you with a charge?" "No, I must have turned it off accidentally." "Can we assist you wit…

I think you're exactly right, and the groundwork is being laid today by the standards society is setting for everybody. People will assume a lack of phone or the presence of a phone but lack of usage / content on it, makes you guilty of some sort of crime similar to owning a burner phone.

Tell somebody you use your phone less than 10 minutes a day and look at their face change.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#88

Post by ale42 »

j0057 wrote: post #82
bilekas wrote: post #3

This is a great example of how this whole requirement hasn't been properly thought out. > Desktop support is not currently within the project's scope. What I would like to take from this is that, by their own definition, desktop apps are out of scope for Age Verification. So does that mean we will see a return of the 'desktop applications' instead of everything being a web service ? One can dream perhaps. Until then…

> Also this will completely disable any new phone OS' being developed. Why would anyone bother when you can't verify your wallet to do anything online. This already the case today, you can't run your bank's app or government eID apps on anything but Google or Apple devices.

True. But it doesn't _need_ to be so, it's actually a problem.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#89

Post by fhdkweig »

pessimizer wrote: post #15
cenamus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further forcing everybody to have their phone on person at all times

I've been saying this for years: eventually not having your phone on you and powered up at all times will not be a crime, but it will be grounds for questioning and search. One day, there will be a knock on your door. "Good morning, this is the police. Is there something wrong with your phone? Is your phone broken? Can we provide you with a charge?" "No, I must have turned it off accidentally." "Can we assist you wit…

According to Mallen Baker, this is already happening in 9 countries. https://youtu.be/0zlDVM1x8P4?t=228

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#90

Post by zekica »

realusername wrote: post #73
nickslaughter02 wrote: post #12

Do you want desktop PC vendors locking down hardware to enforce integrity?

I don't want integrity on my mobile so why would I want it on my desktop?

Exactly, remote attestation is only acceptable on your own devices with remote attestation servers that you control.

For example, it would be completely fine to implement remote attestation where devices issued by companies to employees verify their TPM values with company's servers when connecting via VPN.

All other such activities directly infringe on ownership rights.

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