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Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

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Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#81

Post by atonse »

yibg wrote: post #48
sarchertech wrote: post #28

It's wild to watch the zeitgeist among many programmers swap in real time from being against H-1B visas to pro H-1B visas the second Trump goes after them. It is possible for a stopped clock to be right twice a day. Left and right doesn't have to disagree on literally every single thing. If you're on an H-1B and you get fired or laid off, you have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. That creates an underclass o…

You can take issues with the current (previous) H1B policy and the new one at the same time. There was abuse of the H1B program, but this new EO also has issues. The biggest one currently is the rollout. There is no guidance, no mechanism to pay the actual fee, no clarity on if it applies retroactively to existing visa holders etc.

Yup, whether the 100k fee will curb misuse remains to be seen. But giving people essentially 24h to react feels like utter bullshit causing totally unnecessary and avoidable chaos to LEGAL (and vetted from a background check standpoint) immigrants.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#82

Post by sarchertech »

yibg wrote: post #48
sarchertech wrote: post #28

It's wild to watch the zeitgeist among many programmers swap in real time from being against H-1B visas to pro H-1B visas the second Trump goes after them. It is possible for a stopped clock to be right twice a day. Left and right doesn't have to disagree on literally every single thing. If you're on an H-1B and you get fired or laid off, you have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. That creates an underclass o…

You can take issues with the current (previous) H1B policy and the new one at the same time. There was abuse of the H1B program, but this new EO also has issues. The biggest one currently is the rollout. There is no guidance, no mechanism to pay the actual fee, no clarity on if it applies retroactively to existing visa holders etc.

>You can take issues with the current (previous) H1B policy and the new one at the same time.

That's entirely true. But that's not what I've been hearing since this EO was announced. I've just heard pro immigration arguments about all the good H-1B visas accomplish with none of the downsides.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#83

Post by sarchertech »

atonse wrote: post #81
yibg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take issues with the current (previous) H1B policy and the new one at the same time. There was abuse of the H1B program, but this new EO also has issues. The biggest one currently is the rollout. There is no guidance, no mechanism to pay the actual fee, no clarity on if it applies retroactively to existing visa holders etc.

Yup, whether the 100k fee will curb misuse remains to be seen. But giving people essentially 24h to react feels like utter bullshit causing totally unnecessary and avoidable chaos to LEGAL (and vetted from a background check standpoint) immigrants.

Sure everything Trump does is insane, but all I've been hearing is how "H-1Bs are good actually".

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#84

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

sarchertech wrote: post #51
rs186 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the employer will happily get rid of the US headcount and rehire the same guy in their home country or UK/Canada etc while paying a third of the salary. Zero employer is going to pay $100k.

At big tech companies they are already paying $200k or more than they'd pay the same worker in their home country for existing H-1Bs. An extra $100k might tip the scale for some but not for all. The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can.

> The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can.

For publicly-held large tech, the equation isn't about affordability but about maximizing shareholder dividends. Moving jobs overseas has long been the preferred means to that end.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#85

Post by dllthomas »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #75
dragonwriter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning executive orders is nonsense; you can’t have an executive branch with a head and prohibit the head from giving direction to the rest of the executive branch. Executive orders that violate, or direct the violation of, existing law are illegal (or, at least, without legal effect) to the extent they do that, but whether or not a particular order meets that description is frequently a matter of dispute, which can…

> Executive orders that violate, or direct the violation of, existing law are illegal But now we run into the question of What is illegality without ethical-centric courts?

I think we have that question regardless.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#87

Post by LogicArsenal »

This will only encourage more technical jobs to move offshore. We already lost most of our manufacturing capacity to offshore factories. Policies like this will encourage more IT, engineering and research jobs to permanently move to lower cost countries. Why pay 100k to bring the best talent to the US when you can just move the whole team offshore?

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#88

Post by sarchertech »

vkou wrote: post #55
sarchertech wrote: post #28

It's wild to watch the zeitgeist among many programmers swap in real time from being against H-1B visas to pro H-1B visas the second Trump goes after them. It is possible for a stopped clock to be right twice a day. Left and right doesn't have to disagree on literally every single thing. If you're on an H-1B and you get fired or laid off, you have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. That creates an underclass o…

What's really wild is anyone seeing that the solution to the multitude of real and self-inflicted problems in this country is... A shakedown of and a head tax on immigrants. I wonder what's next. Maybe stealing their 401Ks and their SS contributions?

That's clearly not a solution to any of the other problems in the country. But making a bad visa program more expensive to employers abusing it is potentially a way to mitigate it.

Here's Bernie Sanders comments on the H-1B visa.

"The main function of the H-1B visa program is not to hire “the best and the brightest,” but rather to replace good-paying American jobs with low-wage indentured servants from abroad."

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#89

Post by sarchertech »

dragonwriter wrote: post #44
sarchertech wrote: post #28

It's wild to watch the zeitgeist among many programmers swap in real time from being against H-1B visas to pro H-1B visas the second Trump goes after them. It is possible for a stopped clock to be right twice a day. Left and right doesn't have to disagree on literally every single thing. If you're on an H-1B and you get fired or laid off, you have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. That creates an underclass o…

> It's wild to watch the zeitgeist among many programmers swap in real time from being against H-1B visas to pro H-1B visas the second Trump goes after them. Trump isn’t going after them, he is converting them into another channel for arbitrary favoritism and graft. Being against the H-1b as a bad system does not conflict with being against the way Trump is making that system worse.

Sure that's a thing he might do. I think the most likely outcome is that big tech ends up scooping up all the H-1B slots.

But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not saying people were anti H-1B visa and now they still are, but disagree with Trump's "solution" I'm seeing comments full of "H-1Bs are good actually".

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#90

Post by sailingparrot »

fcanesin wrote: post #49
farseer wrote: post #29

The big question mark is if this fee would apply to hundreds of thousands of existing H1B visa holders when they need an extension/renewal?

yes, and it started from today.

No, it's for new H1-Bs and renewals, and it starts tomorrow.
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