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React is winning by default and slowing innovation

lorenstew.art

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Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#81

Post by ironmagma »

theturtle32 wrote: post #73

I feel this with every fiber of my being. I used to do a TON of front-end work, some of it quite cutting edge, delivering highly performant user experiences in the browser that had previously been only thought possible in a native app. Back in like 2009-2015. I was deeply connected with the web standards fundamentals and how to leverage them mostly directly. I detoured into heavier focus on backend work for quite a w…

> It just basically does everything React does but better

SolidJS still has some major pain points; the one I found was not knowing whether a prop was a signal or needed to become one. The type system doesn't help much. In React, you know for sure that if your reference changes, the component reading that reference as a prop will re-render. In Solid, it's less clear whether the update will be observed.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#82

Post by cosmic_cheese »

danielvinson wrote: post #7

I think this article discounts the reasons behind frontend decisions... priorities are absolutely fast execution time and ease of hiring. There is very, very little reason to care about optimizing frontend performance for a vast majority of apps. Users just don't care. It doesn't make the company more money. If a framework is easy to use and everyone knows it, it's simply the best choice for 90%+ of teams.

> There is very, very little reason to care about optimizing frontend performance for a vast majority of apps. Users just don't care. It doesn't make the company more money.

There’s plenty of users who care, but when the competition is also all slow and heavy they don’t get any choice in the matter.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#83

Post by mhitza »

The javascript people should stop innovating for a couple of years. To much innovation that lead nowhere. How many ways can one build a web javascript project?

Browser people should pick up slack and start developing sane components for the web. How about a backend-supporting combobox, or a standardized date picker across browsers? Then we wouldn't need to constantly innovate how we manage the state of those fundamental operating controls that browser still don't have in 2025.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#84

Post by jonny_eh »

baron816 wrote: post #22
Alex_L_Wood wrote: post #14

Good. I remember the times when there was a weekly new framework that would absolutely revolutionize the web frontend development. Mobile development forums were having all-out wars regarding MVP vs MVVM vs VIPER vs ... vs ... yadda yadda. Now I can just enjoy stable predictable tooling and I can benefit from tons of examples and documentation.

Umm…hate to break it to you, but https://youtu.be/NeJ6wq2szVs?si=RFwtccO9_QH1CJzY

But no one will use it, so it can be safely ignored. It's both a good thing and at the same time a shame.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#85

Post by sitzkrieg »

spoiler wrote: post #46
sitzkrieg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

here here, being involved with porting a huge angular 1 project to the first angular2 RCs (golden dev choice) was the worst frontend project i ever witnessed in my not short career :-)

I'm working with a large Angular app, and my dev experience has been abysmal. TS language server running out of memory, Angular language server frequently crashes or freezes leaving weird half line diagnostics in its wake. Go to definitions are so slow in the proje too. I've worked on 2x, if not 3x larger React codebase without these issues. I can't tell a single instance where language tooling was failing me so seve…

i wasn't on the project for the entirety, but i certainly remember the new ng tooling getting heavier and heavier. once the apis settled down a bit people really started cranking uis out though

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#86

Post by dottjt »

theturtle32 wrote: post #73

I feel this with every fiber of my being. I used to do a TON of front-end work, some of it quite cutting edge, delivering highly performant user experiences in the browser that had previously been only thought possible in a native app. Back in like 2009-2015. I was deeply connected with the web standards fundamentals and how to leverage them mostly directly. I detoured into heavier focus on backend work for quite a w…

> Yet I still have to begrudgingly use React in several contexts because of the industry-wide inertia, and I really wish I didn't have to.

I think you'll find a lot of people begrudgingly have to work and really wish they didn't have to. That means using what they know, which means React. Which I totally get. People want to spend time with their kids, hobbies etc. Worst case, they might be caring for others, like their elderly parents.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#87

Post by tshaddox »

This is mostly just a complaint about how good React is. It's so good that it's difficult for the technical benefits of alternatives to outweigh the social benefits of choosing React.

Note that this is neither a major compliment to React's technical merits nor a criticism of React's competitors. In fact, I don't even disagree with the author on some of his claims, such as:

> React is no longer winning by technical merit. Today it is winning by default.

> That reflex creates a self-perpetuating cycle where network effects, rather than technical fit, decide architecture.

I agree! But teams are still largely choosing the better option, because the benefits of React are indeed outweighing the benefits of choosing an alternative. What the author is missing is simply that the technical benefits of an alternative are small except in narrow use cases. And I suspect most competent teams do in fact identify if they're in those narrow use cases and correctly choose an alternative.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#88

Post by suchanlee »

React is good, and is good enough. That and the ability to easily find React devs makes it a good enough choice for almost all front end applications.

For a new framework to be the default, it has to be a major step function improvement over React, like React was compared to other frameworks at the time like Angular, Ember, etc. I don't think I've seen that in any new frameworks yet.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#89

Post by jonny_eh »

mrits wrote: post #30
maelito wrote: post #11

Rewrite the first paragraph replacing "React" by "HTML". React is mostly HTML driven by data. "HTML killed front end innovation". Well that enabled standards to build real use cases on it with a common ground. Before React, the Web world was a mess. In 2025, you have lots of frameworks to explore. React did not kill front end innovation at all, it just became a standard that gives more common understanding to buildin…

[flagged]

I make myself less emotional about internet comments by first assuming they're all written by bots :D

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#90

Post by j45 »

tshaddox wrote: post #87

This is mostly just a complaint about how good React is. It's so good that it's difficult for the technical benefits of alternatives to outweigh the social benefits of choosing React. Note that this is neither a major compliment to React's technical merits nor a criticism of React's competitors. In fact, I don't even disagree with the author on some of his claims, such as: > React is no longer winning by technical me…

React is great at solving complex problems.

Not all problems are complex to begin with, and having a complex tool as default otherwise adds complexity to the project and also inflexibility to iterate quickly.

This is in addition to having to maintain a relatively brittle ecosystem from past feature as well as future features but that can be true for more than one area of JavaScript or other technologies.

Looking for the next curve to emerge out of the current generation of web app building.

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