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Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

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Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#81
post #52

People in the west are so used to freedom of speech and so focused on problems with social media. They miss the fact, that many authoritarian governments in Asia see freedom of speech in social media as a threat. They are not banning Facebook to improve quality of life, they want to limit freedom of speech.

People in the west are also incredibly naive about issues around speech, and even more naive about the effects of propaganda, which ironically is what dominates most western media these days. For example, if you can say a thing, but someone with more money or influence can say the opposite thing so loud that no one can hear you, do you really have a voice? Yes, you have free speech in that you don't get retribution f…

> which ironically is what dominates most western media these days.

Read up on the founding of the US and who funded printing all the propaganda flyers, newspapers, and pamphlets. That stuff wasn't cheap back then!

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but you can speak out in front of the Costco. There's no equivalent for fb.

I think they also own the land out in front of the shop.

Many places in the USA, but not everywhere, have sidewalks around the parking lot that are going to be publicly owned so you can set up with signs and a megaphone there.

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#83

People in the west are so used to freedom of speech and so focused on problems with social media. They miss the fact, that many authoritarian governments in Asia see freedom of speech in social media as a threat. They are not banning Facebook to improve quality of life, they want to limit freedom of speech.

If free speech in America goes away, the rest of the world will suffer for it as well. People get worked up about "hate speech" a very arbitrary thing, that changes over time, but they don't realize the slippery slope that creates if you try to police speech. The things I've seen Australians and even British people arrested for posting or commenting on online is absurd. The people who support it are fine with it, unt…

> If free speech in America goes away

What part of the President threatening financial sanctions and jail time for speech makes you think we have this?

To the degree the American experiment has shown anything about free speech, it’s that it may not work uncensored broadly. At the end of the day, we voted against it.

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#85

People in the west are so used to freedom of speech and so focused on problems with social media. They miss the fact, that many authoritarian governments in Asia see freedom of speech in social media as a threat. They are not banning Facebook to improve quality of life, they want to limit freedom of speech.

If free speech in America goes away, the rest of the world will suffer for it as well. People get worked up about "hate speech" a very arbitrary thing, that changes over time, but they don't realize the slippery slope that creates if you try to police speech. The things I've seen Australians and even British people arrested for posting or commenting on online is absurd. The people who support it are fine with it, unt…

Ref. the UK ('British people'), there's currently a thing where peacfully protesting a ban will get you arrested (I have a lot of sympathy for the police in this case, whatever they do will be wrong in the eyes of one side or the other).

[0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rvly00440o

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What freedom of speech? The "first world countries" in Europe are slowly turning up the surveillance state to not let people online if they don't provide their IDs, they want to surveil every private conversation you have at home, if it uses the internet in any way, they'd love banning encryption, VPNs, etc... but you have freedom of speech? Except when talking about thinks that are deemed "pro enemy" (Russia or whoe…

Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech. Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity. Freedom must be accompanied by responsibility and accountability.

> Anonymity is not a prerequisite to freedom of speech.

I couldn't disagree more. The vast majority of papers the founders of the US published to argue against tyrannical government were written anonymously.

> Broken lives of people harassed by anonymous trolls on social media are the dark side of anonymity.

This is a cliche "think of the children" argument. Stripping away anonymity is a gargantuan problem, and enables authoritarian regimes to punish dissent. Trolls are a very minor problem comparatively.

> Freedom must be accompanied by responsibility and accountability.

This is essentially saying "freedom needs to come with punishments and restrictions when you do things I don't like". It's an oxymoron. The responsibilities a free populace have are moral and civil, they aren't about giving away anonymity to governments.

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#87
post #60

People in the west are so used to freedom of speech and so focused on problems with social media. They miss the fact, that many authoritarian governments in Asia see freedom of speech in social media as a threat. They are not banning Facebook to improve quality of life, they want to limit freedom of speech.

Did the UK banning RT.com improve my quality of life?

Not sure this is correct? It loads for me on Virgin Media broadband connection (although slow), also responds to pings at 70ms.

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#88
Other than the obvious discussions around free speech(very valid points), do we have any real studies on the actual effects of social media? What if social media platforms didn't exist. Would the world have been a better place? I don't know the answer, but atleast from my observations it feels as if almost every country in the world has moved to the right but by bit. We have moved away from globalization and are into protectionism. Is social media to be blamed for this? I think it has certainly played it's part for sure.

One advantage of social media I see is that it has allowed people to create D2C businesses.

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#89
post #52

People in the west are so used to freedom of speech and so focused on problems with social media. They miss the fact, that many authoritarian governments in Asia see freedom of speech in social media as a threat. They are not banning Facebook to improve quality of life, they want to limit freedom of speech.

People in the west are also incredibly naive about issues around speech, and even more naive about the effects of propaganda, which ironically is what dominates most western media these days. For example, if you can say a thing, but someone with more money or influence can say the opposite thing so loud that no one can hear you, do you really have a voice? Yes, you have free speech in that you don't get retribution f…

People who have never seen propaganda in action don't understand: it cannot work (the way these states want it to work) in the presence of real information channels, even if that's just private conversation. That's why socialist states arrest people for just talking privately to an agent about the government.

So yes, you have free speech if major news players coordinate whatever. If on social networks you get banned. Absolutely. That's problem 1 for authoritarian regimes. This is not something any authoritarian nation will relent on even slightly.

Second they have a problem with there being any "players" at all. Because you do get different perspectives, most of which don't match the governments. Compare the news in Israel with the "news" in Russia, or with Al Jazeera and you will see the difference. In Israel, there's maybe 5 major channels. But they hate each other. Pro and contra the war perspectives are represented. In Russia, there is no anti-war perspective. In Al Jazeera there is no one questioning how the government is spending money, there is no discussion on viewpoints, on anything in the middle east. There is no discussion of corruption either, in either Russia or Qatar. None.

This illustrates the problem of propaganda: everyone knows it's bullshit. Every Russian knows Russia is less democratic than a US TSA inspection. Everyone knows everything in Qatar is entirely, 100%, corrupt.

Propaganda will fail, certainly in the eyes of the government, if there is some, any way to get real information. And it doesn't matter if it's not easy. This is how it's always been in the US, because now people have some seriously rose colored glasses on how "true" US newspapers were in the early parts of the 20th century. Reality is that in the US bullshit always dominated the news cycle. This is not new.

Re: Nepal Bans 26 Social Media Platforms, Including Facebook and YouTube

#90

People in the west are so used to freedom of speech and so focused on problems with social media. They miss the fact, that many authoritarian governments in Asia see freedom of speech in social media as a threat. They are not banning Facebook to improve quality of life, they want to limit freedom of speech.

> They are not banning Facebook to improve quality of life, they want to limit freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is great, but not if its used by your neighbours to stir up trouble. (the civil war was long https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepalese_Civil_War ) One thing the "west" ie the USA needs to understand (well they'll know very shortly) is that the right to consume propaganda from your countries enemies is not…

> Facebook et al is not a neutral platform, it is a vector for other states, and non state actors to whip up outrage and division.

I would feel better about this type of activity being regulated. There is quite a bit of room for facebook to live up to higher standards and regulation to prevent that sort of behavior with out banning.

Might also be more a of a hassle to write and enforce the laws though than out right banning though.

The result of that for a country with a small market though might be facebook/similar voluntarily leaving the country/market though.

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