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Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

nature.com

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Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#81

Post by mikeiz404 »

dynm wrote: post #50

This article repeats the common mistake of conflating correlations and causality. The main results are (1) that PM2.5 exposure is correlated with dementia in humans, (2) some experimental results with mice. This does not establish causality in humans. The paper is careful to stay juuuust on the right side of the line by carefully using "associated" in the right places. But the press release discards that pretense at…

It is unfortunate that the title and subheading of the article use a causal phrasing. Fortunately the body of the article does maintain the correct distinction.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#82

Post by dragonwriter »

firesteelrain wrote: post #33

Dementia rates in Miami Dade are among the highest in the country while Utah is on the low end. What is striking is that Utah has worse air quality, which is a known risk factor, yet still shows lower prevalence. Why is that?

Because where people live in retirement doesn’t always reflect where they lived while gathering exposure, and particularly Florida is a place that attracts retirees and perhaps most especially retirees with respiratory health issues (which, like dementia, are influenced by air quality they qere exposee to over their earlier life.)

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#83

Post by mikeiz404 »

goalieca wrote: post #62
dynm wrote: post #50

This article repeats the common mistake of conflating correlations and causality. The main results are (1) that PM2.5 exposure is correlated with dementia in humans, (2) some experimental results with mice. This does not establish causality in humans. The paper is careful to stay juuuust on the right side of the line by carefully using "associated" in the right places. But the press release discards that pretense at…

The maps in the article wasn’t even super clear when you inspect it visually. Didn’t read the study but it can’t be that strongly correlated.

I noticed this too. I do wonder what it would look like if you controlled for relocation (moving to another region and then developing symptoms), disease onset (both maps are for the same time ranges), and the types of pm 2.5 exposure.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#84

Post by bitmasher9 »

dynm wrote: post #64
bitmasher9 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this brought up here every time an association article is mentioned, every undergraduate that took a statistics course has covered the difference between correlation and causation. We do population level correlation studies because sometimes a double blind study is unethical, and double blind studies is the bar for establishing causation in the medical community. We cannot give one person randomly worse air to…

You seem to be responding as if I claimed that population-level correlational studies are bad, or that I claimed that air pollution is not bad for you. But I did not claim either of those things. What I claimed is that this press release takes a population-level correlational study and presents it in a misleading way that implies causation was established. Which this press release most certainly does.

The correlation != causation argument at large is usually a sophomoric dismal of valuable data, and I’d rather see discussion on the data or specifics to research methodology then this meta criticism.

Ultimately both exaggerating pop-sci articles and dismissive comments are contributing to public distrust of science.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#85

Post by Hilift »

bamboozled wrote: post #3

I've heard the argument made that it's better to stop burning fossil fuel, even if you're a climate change denier for reasons like this. Even if you think climate change is a hoax, why not reduce pollution anyway?

It is being reduced where you think it should be. There is now a more serious threat from uncontrollable methane emissions. Landfills can turn into a slushee that accelerates methane ouptput. And landfills can catch fire, such as the Chiquita Canyon landfill in Val Verde, California (90 acres). 58% of uncontrolled methane is from food decay, and is increasing.

https://www.epa.gov/land-research/quantifying-methane-emissi...

Quantifying methane emissions from United States landfills https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adi7735

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#86

Post by lentil_soup »

Avshalom wrote: post #78
dynm wrote: post #50

This article repeats the common mistake of conflating correlations and causality. The main results are (1) that PM2.5 exposure is correlated with dementia in humans, (2) some experimental results with mice. This does not establish causality in humans. The paper is careful to stay juuuust on the right side of the line by carefully using "associated" in the right places. But the press release discards that pretense at…

Oh yeah, sure definitely it's just as likely that people predisposed to dementia move to places with high air pollution...

Probably not that, but it could be something else that also correlates with pollution like living in big cities, or working in a factory, walking more/less, noise levels, lifestyle, etc

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#87

Post by Krssst »

hereme888 wrote: post #25
bamboozled wrote: post #3

I've heard the argument made that it's better to stop burning fossil fuel, even if you're a climate change denier for reasons like this. Even if you think climate change is a hoax, why not reduce pollution anyway?

I'm on that boat. Though no one denies that the climate changes (but rather argue the about degree of human contribution and climate warming), destroying the beauty of nature and polluting the environment should go against global human conscience.

> destroying the beauty of nature and polluting the environment should go against global human conscience.

I don't think beauty has anything to do with it. Climate change has very negative concrete effects on human civilization that justify the effort we should put (but don't) into limiting it. Generally pollution is nocive to human health which is why we strive to avoid it too.

I think talking about "beauty" moves the debate away from rational arguments. The reason we do all this is to preserve a world where humans can have comfortable lives, without additional health risks adding up and with enough access to necessities (food, water, shelter, breathable air compatible with human survival (never too long above 35C wet-bulb)).

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#88

Post by t-writescode »

maldonad0 wrote: post #54
firesteelrain wrote: post #33

Dementia rates in Miami Dade are among the highest in the country while Utah is on the low end. What is striking is that Utah has worse air quality, which is a known risk factor, yet still shows lower prevalence. Why is that?

Life is psychologically worse in the cities.

My sorrow and sadness from being in a place where I can't walk to go do things is substantially worse than places where I can.

I can walk in cities.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#89

Post by FollowingTheDao »

hereme888 wrote: post #21
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #14

In my opinion, the reason air pollution effects dementia risk is through activation of Heat Shock Proteins and I think it is the most valuable place to be investing in research. Heat Shock Proteins in Alzheimer’s Disease: Role and Targeting https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6163571/

It seems to be multifactorial. Per an OpenEvidence query, which cites many recent studies: "In summary, the mechanism of PM2.5-induced brain damage involves entry via the olfactory system and BBB, activation of glial cells, neuroinflammation, oxidative stress, BBB disruption, and downstream neurodegenerative changes."

Heat Shock Proteins affect the function of all of those systems . Put that into OpenEvidence...

Learn about biology instead of relying on simple searches for you answers.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#90

Post by biophysboy »

firesteelrain wrote: post #33

Dementia rates in Miami Dade are among the highest in the country while Utah is on the low end. What is striking is that Utah has worse air quality, which is a known risk factor, yet still shows lower prevalence. Why is that?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/state-stats/deaths/alzheimers.html

That's strange, because the dementia mortality rate is high...

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