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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#81

Post by gruez »

multjoy wrote: post #59
inetknght wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any business vaguely money related knows exactly who you are because of KYC requirements. They also will happily give your money to any thief pretending to be you, and then blame you for their mistake.

Unless you’re in a jurisdiction in which they’re liable for that mistake.

I don't think there's any jurisdiction that puts the identity theft victim on the hook for fraud. Yes, you might get threatening letters or dings on your credit report/score while the issue gets sorted out, but that's not the same as being "blamed" for the identity theft, any more than someone wrongly accused of a crime is "blamed" for the mistaken identity.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#82

Post by bilbo0s »

nine_k wrote: post #34
drnick1 wrote: post #17

The real problem here is privacy and anonymity. These discrete "rating systems" used by various companies aren't particularly dangerous as long as they cannot identify users by some common identifier such as name, DOB or address. Got banned by Uber or Amazon? Just create a new account.

Both Uber and Amazon accounts involve payment methods and typical delivery / pickup addresses. All these, combined or separately, can be used as a proxy of "the same person" notion. Well, delivery addresses can be somehow anonymized by the use of PO boxes; names on credit cards, not so much.

I was gonna say.

Of all companies, the systems at Uber and Amazon definitely know it's you starting the new account. They just don't openly mention it, and quietly link your old accounts via monitoring and analytics. As soon as the FBI comes knocking, they're able to provide your current account and all linked accounts. Even the ones they previously closed.

(Not that the FBI has to come knocking nowadays to get that information, but Uber and Amazon are able to provide comprehensive help to law enforcement if it's required.)

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#83

Post by ch4s3 »

fmnxl wrote: post #45
seydor wrote: post #23

No there is a major difference when social credit is centralized to a single authority , and people cannot use the law to protect from that authority. otherwise, people have always judged each other with any way they could

Those "single authorities" you fear already exist in western countries, the mega-corporations that monopolise entire markets. The western system creates an illusion of choice, which those in power have found ways to manipulate. It has become merely a convenient tool for them to exploit the rest of the population, while the "free market" and "democracy" keep them oblivious to it. But whatever people like me say, it wi…

> But whatever people like me say, it will be too hard for most of you to accept the reality.

You seem to think awfully highly of your ability to reason about the world, but I find your claim to be fairly lacking. This all reads like the ramblings of a 19 year old who just discovered Chomsky.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#84

Post by themafia »

gruez wrote: post #72
themafia wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the relationship between the bartender, the non-profit or the barista all revolve around physical locations where cash transactions or real work occur. There's actual direct value to be measured in the interaction. Further my interactions with the bartender aren't likely to be measured or even known about by the non-profit and vice versa. To the extent my "credit" is a factor it doesn't travel with…

>the non-profit or the barista all revolve around physical locations where cash transactions or real work occur. There's actual direct value to be measured in the interaction. I don't see how this is a relevant factor. If you're a karen at a restaurant who constantly sends your food back for the tiniest of issues, how is that any different than if the interaction happened online, such as if amazon gave you a bad cust…

> such as if amazon gave you a bad customer credit score for your excessive returns?

Is amazon going to tell me that up front? In the restaurant case the manager can explain the issue to the customer and ask them not to come in again. It becomes immediately resolvable whereas in your example I have no idea what just happened to me.

> Word travels around, does it not?

The difference between the analog word and the digital word is extreme.

> compared to some vibes sitting in some guy's head?

I live in a town of 2 million people. These vibes have zero impact. Add them to a database that can be tied to my credit card number? Now they have real impact. I don't think that's a reasonable or desirable outcome.

The problem with these systems isn't their mere existence it's their draconian implementations.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#85

Post by BeetleB »

nemomarx wrote: post #19
socalgal2 wrote: post #5

Great article and good point. I never articulated this as good as the article but, I've always assumed that when I use Uber/Lyft and rate a driver, if I give too many drivers a low rating I'll be banned from the app. I'm not saying I will actually be banned, I have no idea. Rather, I'm saying I fear I will be banned. I mean why not? Any customer that effectively makes the company look bad can be banned by the company…

All of this sounds like normal driving behavior to me? I see it every time I commute to work. I think if you want a driver who doesn't do this you'd need a real commercially registered driver with specific training.

Being normal doesn't mean "not bad". If I'm rating a driver, then I'm rating him. It's irrelevant how other drivers behave.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#86

Post by odo1242 »

inetknght wrote: post #36
gruez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any business vaguely money related knows exactly who you are because of KYC requirements. They don't need to ask for you phone number when they already have your full name, address, birthday, and SSN.

> Any business vaguely money related knows exactly who you are because of KYC requirements. They also will happily give your money to any thief pretending to be you, and then blame you for their mistake.

The bank would be responsible for getting the user their money back under US law, actually - even if it was the user’s fault due to bad security

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#88

Post by deepsun »

> As of 2024, there's still no nationwide social credit score in China.

> The gap between Western perception and Chinese reality is enormous

They inserted "nationwide".

The social credit score in one China region (khm Xinj... khm) is truly dystopian, and I bet people there don't care whether it's "nationwide" or not, if they can literally be sterilized or get sent to concentration camps because of that.

But they said it's not nationwide! As of 2024.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#89

Post by gowld »

darthoctopus wrote: post #46
seydor wrote: post #23

No there is a major difference when social credit is centralized to a single authority , and people cannot use the law to protect from that authority. otherwise, people have always judged each other with any way they could

Did you even read the article? Here is the situation in China: > Here's what's actually happening. As of 2024, there's still no nationwide social credit score in China. Most private scoring systems have been shut down, and local government pilots have largely ended. It’s mainly a fragmented collection of regulatory compliance tools, mostly focused on financial behavior and business oversight. While well over 33 milli…

You are conflating "social credit score", which hasn't been built out in China (although blacklisting, imprisonment, and torture for wrongthink has been built out), with "financial credit score" which exists in USA via private companies working togther, and "credit reports" which exist in both USA and China. China's is run by the unelected, dictatorial government.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#90

Post by propagandist »

ch4s3 wrote: post #83
fmnxl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those "single authorities" you fear already exist in western countries, the mega-corporations that monopolise entire markets. The western system creates an illusion of choice, which those in power have found ways to manipulate. It has become merely a convenient tool for them to exploit the rest of the population, while the "free market" and "democracy" keep them oblivious to it. But whatever people like me say, it wi…

> But whatever people like me say, it will be too hard for most of you to accept the reality. You seem to think awfully highly of your ability to reason about the world, but I find your claim to be fairly lacking. This all reads like the ramblings of a 19 year old who just discovered Chomsky.

> You seem to think awfully highly of your ability to reason about the world, but I find your claim to be fairly lacking. This all reads like the ramblings of a 19 year old who just discovered Chomsky.

Address the argument rather than engaging in ad hominem.

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