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We put a coding agent in a while loop

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Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#81

Post by dhorthy »

doug_durham wrote: post #74
bwestergard wrote: post #26

There are always two major results from any software development process: a change in the code and a change in cognition for the people who wrote the code (whether they did so directly or with an LLM). Python and Typescript are elaborate formal languages that emerged from a lengthy process of development involving thousands of people around the world over many years. They are non-trivially different, and it's neat th…

I wonder though. One of the superpowers of LLMs is code reading. I say the tools are better and reading than writing. It is very easy to get comprehensive documentation for any code base and get understanding by asking questions. At that point does it matter that there is a living developer who understands the code? If an arbitrary person with knowledge of the technology stack can get up to speed quickly is it import…

i spend a lot of time thinking about this.

At humanlayer we have some OSS projects that are 99% written by AI, and a lot of it was written by AI under the supervision of developer(s) that are no longer at the company.

Every now and then we find that there are gaps in our own understanding of the code/architecture that require getting out the old LSP and spelunking through call stacks.

It's pretty rare though.

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#82

Post by efitz »

I honestly think that partially-OSS SaaS is in for a rocky road; many popular paid or freemium tools are likely to be rewritten by AI and published as OSS with permissive licenses over the next year or two.

I also think that the same capability will largely invalidate the GPL, as people point agents at GPL software and write new software that performs the same function as OSS with more permissive licenses.

My reasoning is this: the reason that people use OSS versions of software that has restrictive licensing terms, is because it’s not worth the effort to them to rewrite.

Corporations certainly, but also individuals, will be able to use similar approaches to what these people used, and in a day or two come back to a mostly-functional (but buggy) new software package that does most of what the original did, but now you have a brand new software that you control completely and you are not beholden to or restricted by anyone.

Next time someone tries to pull an ElasticSearch license trick on AWS, AWS will just point one or a thousand agents at the source and get a brand new workalike in a week written in their language du jour, and have it fully functional in a couple of months.

Doesn’t circumvent patent or trademark issues but it’ll be hard to assert that it’s not a new work, esp. if it’s in an entirely different language.

Just something I’ve been thinking about recently, that LLM agents change the game when it comes to software licensing.

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#83

Post by hugh-avherald »

ramraj07 wrote: post #43
bigmattystyles wrote: post #16

Starting to think of this quote more and more: "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZuMe5RvxPQ&t=22s

The irony is that everyone did live through that business. So what youre saying is we will live through this too!

If there's anything Tom Clancy has taught me it's that everything works out in the end.

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#84

Post by ath3nd »

And I hired a cleaning lady, paid her £200, and when I came back, the house was clean.

The difference is that I did not write a blog post about it, nor did I got overly excited about it as if I had just discovered sliced bread, nor did I harbor any illusions that it was me who did anything of value.

Next, I will write a while loop filling my disk with files of random sizes and with random byte content inside. I will update you on the progress when I am back tomorrow. I do expect great results and a nicely filled disk!

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#85

Post by ghuntley »

imiric wrote: post #64
rozab wrote: post #61

These people are weird. The blog post that inspired this has this weird iMessage screenshot, like a shitty investment grift facebook ad: https://ghuntley.com/ralph/ Apparently one of the lucky few who learned this special technique from Geoff just completed a $50k contract for $297. But that's not all! Geoff is generous to share the special secret prompt that unlocked this unbelievable success, if only we subscribe t…

I can't tell whether this "technique" is serious or a joke, and/or if it's some elaborate grift. In any case, the writing style of that entire blog is off-putting. Gibberish from a massive ego.

It's both serious and a joke. The seriousness is that it works (to point) and the implications to our profession as software developers. The joke is just how stupid it is. Refer to the original story link above for proof of outcomes.

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#86

Post by nsonha »

dhorthy wrote: post #50
CuriouslyC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already happening brother, https://github.com/containers/kubernetes-mcp-server .

still don’t know why you need an MCP for this when the model is perfectly well trained to write files and run kubetctl on its own

> on its own

does it? Did you forget the prompts? MCP is just a protocol for tool/function calling which in turn is part of the prompt, quite an important part actually.

Did you think AI works by prompts like "make magic happen" and it... just happens? Anyone who makes dumb arguments like this should not deserve a job in tech.

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#87

Post by rogerrogerr »

bitexploder wrote: post #76
rogerrogerr wrote: post #45

Does anyone else get dull feelings of dread reading this kind of thing? How do you combat it?

Stoicism. Dichotomy of control. Is this something you can control? If no, don’t dread. If yes, do something. Often, all you have firmly in your grasp are things inside of your brain. Catch the negative thought. Acknowledge it. Move on. Do not dwell. Take proactive steps to be ready in your career. You do tech ling enough and you live through multiple cycles like this.

All appreciated, thanks. Any thoughts on what those proactive steps would be? I'm early-career (26yo, "senior" software dude at a defense outfit).

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#88

Post by goosejuice »

VincentEvans wrote: post #12

There will be a a new kind of job for software engineers, sort of like a cross between working with legacy code and toxic site cleanup. Like back in the day being brought in to “just fix” a amalgam of FoxPro-, Excel-, and Access-based ERP that “mostly works” and only “occasionally corrupts all our data” that ambitious sales people put together over last 5 years. But worse - because “ambitious sales people” will no lo…

Developers do that too. Consultants have be doing rescue projects for quite a long time. I don't think anything has or will change on that front.

Re: We put a coding agent in a while loop

#90

Post by gexla »

dhorthy wrote: post #50
CuriouslyC wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already happening brother, https://github.com/containers/kubernetes-mcp-server .

still don’t know why you need an MCP for this when the model is perfectly well trained to write files and run kubetctl on its own

Not sure about the MCP, but I find that using something (RAG or otherwise provide docs) to point the LLM specifically to what you're trying to use works better than just relying on its training data or browsing the internet. An issue I had was that it would use outdated docs, etc.
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