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Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

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Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#81
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a DLP professional: please don’t tell people this. You can absolutely be arrested and prosecuted for this.

What's the charge for the arrest? I thought legally intellectual property wasn't "real property." If it actually was a trade secret, it might make more sense.

There are intangible kinds of property and assets that are more valuable than “real property”. Trade secrets is an obvious one, being a special case of intellectual property. It would be absolutely irrational for legal system to classify theft of iPhone as criminal and theft of IP as civil, when the former cost $700 and monetizing the latter could finance creator’s entire life.

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you wrong your employer, for example by failing to do your job well, you are not a criminal to be prosecuted by the state This is going out of one’s way to abuse the employer’s trust. Moreover, it’s stealing their stuff. If I take cash out of a till, my employer should have the option of pressing charges. Where I agree with you is that this isn’t computer fraud and abuse. It’s closer to theft. The law used to pr…

> it’s stealing their stuff. Then I'm sure your have a great explanation as to why they were charged with trespass and not theft.

cant be theft, as it he copyed from one format to another...different video standards/resolutions...and if he gave a copy, of the copy away and the third party(cnn) has not been charged, even though they published the footage, and profited by that, then yes him getting criminaly charged for what is an indiscression at best is unusual. what would be of interest is if the same organisation that "owned" the cameras and footage has ever demanded that employies share footage taken on there phones, or requires employies to carry a personal phone for work, as that would further muddy any notion of personal/private ....all to cover up what is egregious behavior on the part of military pilots in civilian airspace....but realy part of an attempt to intimidate the public into not documenting military and police crime.

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#83
The person who leaked the video worked in a police dispatch center. Those personnel aren't supposed to leak information. Would it be ok for an EMS tech to leak videos? How about a surgeon? The incident occurred in public view with many existing videos and eyewitnesses and other telemetry information. It wasn't like this guy was swinging for the fences to get the Zapruder tape to us.

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trading one "private sector" state surveillance and narrative control platform for another isn't much of an improvement. That said, I hate to break it to you, but there is no real question of 'when', or even 'if'. The general public simply does not care, no matter how much abuse they are subjected to by mainstream platform operators. There will always be a minority who care enough to embrace decentralization, open so…

> ... "only two thirds of Americans can name all three branches of government, or that fewer than one in four can name any right secured by the first amendment other than freedom of speech." Mere decades ago, not knowing this kinda stuff would get you failed in grade-school Civics class, and again in junior high, and yet again in high-school (at least where I grew up, here in the "Great NorthWest" Rocky Mountains are…

It's still required knowledge.

People have always crammed for the tests, then promptly forgotten it.

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#85
post #83

The person who leaked the video worked in a police dispatch center. Those personnel aren't supposed to leak information. Would it be ok for an EMS tech to leak videos? How about a surgeon? The incident occurred in public view with many existing videos and eyewitnesses and other telemetry information. It wasn't like this guy was swinging for the fences to get the Zapruder tape to us.

> The incident occurred in public view…

So what was the harm in releasing a video of said public view, that almost certainly would've been subject to FOIA anyways?

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#86
post #54

This encourages self-censorship, or what's called "anticipatory obedience". YouTube has become much worse about censorship. Pepe's Towing, LA's main towing company for major truck accidents, complains that YouTube took down some of their videos. Their videos are simply detailed coverage of the complex but effective process by which large vehicles that had accidents are lifted, rotated upright, placed on their wheels…

If the intention of the videos is to cover the process of towing the cars in general, then there is no need to include specific personally identifiable information, so removing those details seems quite reasonable to me.

Regardless of Youtube's rules, this just seems like good practice. Surveys and opinion polls in newspapers and scientific research normally redact that sort of information, for example.

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#87
post #59
post #54

This encourages self-censorship, or what's called "anticipatory obedience". YouTube has become much worse about censorship. Pepe's Towing, LA's main towing company for major truck accidents, complains that YouTube took down some of their videos. Their videos are simply detailed coverage of the complex but effective process by which large vehicles that had accidents are lifted, rotated upright, placed on their wheels…

I wonder when people in the west will start flocking to Telegram groups (or equivalent) to get the real information the way they do elsewhere.

In almost every context when someone says something like "real information" it almost always means "information I like or agree with".

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#88
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when people in the west will start flocking to Telegram groups (or equivalent) to get the real information the way they do elsewhere.

In almost every context when someone says something like "real information" it almost always means "information I like or agree with".

Clearly “real information” here means “not blurred”. Stop spreading FUD.

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in no way close to theft because theft involves depriving the victim of some good or asset.

There is nothing in the word “theft” that implies depriving someone of physical property. Theft of private data deprives the owner of privacy. Theft of corporate secrets deprives the company of competitive advantage (and if not prosecuted, economy at large of incentives to innovate). IP theft deprives IP holder of ownership claim (and if not prosecuted, arts at large of incentives to create). Identity theft deprives…

Theft (from Old English þeofð, cognate to thief) is the act of taking another person's property or services without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

The word has become overloaded in recent decades to mean other things as well, but for over a thousand years theft has mean taking something from someone permanently

Re: Computer fraud laws used to prosecute leaking air crash footage to CNN

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in no way close to theft because theft involves depriving the victim of some good or asset.

There is nothing in the word “theft” that implies depriving someone of physical property. Theft of private data deprives the owner of privacy. Theft of corporate secrets deprives the company of competitive advantage (and if not prosecuted, economy at large of incentives to innovate). IP theft deprives IP holder of ownership claim (and if not prosecuted, arts at large of incentives to create). Identity theft deprives…

> There is nothing in the word “theft” that implies depriving someone of physical property.

Of course there is. It's origin is the crime of taking of tangible property owned by someone else without consent. It did not apply to intangible property because it predates any concept of legally protected intellectual property that can be duplicated without loss.

Now, there was also the metaphorical use of theft for non-criminal / non-tangible things but poetic use of language shouldn't be confused with primary meanings. For example, "plagiarism" comes from the Latin for "kidnapping" coined playfully by a comic. It was never a crime or ever resembled actual kidnapping. If you call your poem "my baby" because of how precious it is to you, it doesn't become one. Badly editing your poem is not murder either yet you might complain in such dramatic terms.

You might want to argue something about metaphors and secondary meanings but we shouldn't consider the crime of kidnapping to mean reciting other's verses any more than a summer's day should mean temperate people. If we start taking metaphorical uses literally then you also have to start claiming silly things like most kidnapping being legal.

Only in later industrial society did the metaphor become less metaphorical in written law for criminal acts that emerged post-printing-press that were being called fraud, deception, infringement and piracy.

> deprives the owner of privacy

It's pretty metaphorical to describe such things as property that can be stolen.

With this latitude you can frame every injury as theft e.g. stabbing is the theft of good health, murder is theft of life, perjury is theft of a fair trial etc. You might choose to use such language because it's how we roll, but we also know that, as offences, they are not theft.

When an item cannot be traded or restored to the owner, is it property that can be owned and stolen or are concepts of injury, damage and destruction more legitimate?

When it comes to intellectual property, it's closer to contract law where citizens are compelled to abide by contracts the state issues and enforces. The movement of intangible theft from metaphor into law for breaching such a contract was popularised by the beneficiaries to rhetorically inflate an illusion of loss and justify severe sanctions for acts not considered unlawful for most of human history.

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