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Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

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Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#81

Post by thisisit »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #39

It's not shamelessness, it's authenticity. In today's curated, hyperreal society people desperately crave imperfections, cracks in the armour, they want something real , something human. They desire vulnerability, in part because it gives them courage to also be vulnerable, to not be afraid of judgement and rejection, and the freedom to be themselves. And I think it's actionable advice for all of us. Be genuine, be v…

This sounds like what social media mangers are telling their clients - If you are acting stupid/dumb/shameless and attracting people through rage bait, you are being authentic. Lots of prank channels who harass people shamelessly are certainly going for “authentic” reactions.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#82

Post by Animats »

isaacremuant wrote: post #15

It's another pseudo intellectual article to thinly criticize "the other side in US politics" claiming populism and shamelessness. The mafia/werewolf example is certainly a bad analogy and maybe there'd be more consequences to labeling if labeling wasn't used all the time as a political maneuver to destroy an opponent. It's also ridiculously all over the place claiming Paris Hilton somehow popularized being out there.…

The person who popularized "famous for being famous" was Angelyne.[1] Her boyfriend had a display printing business in LA, and, in 1984, arranged for billboards in LA, with just Angelyne and her picture. By 1995, over 200 billboards. She wasn't a movie star. Or a TV star. She'd done some singing. Yet she became famous.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelyne

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#83

Post by overfeed »

aanet wrote: post #30

This is perhaps the best articulation on the rise of certain cantankerous people... in social media / politics / The metaphor of the game is a good one for general understanding (though the Signaling / Counters-signaling paper is a TIL for me) I was hoping that there would be a "solution" of sorts to tackle / handle this issue of when EVERYBODY seems to use this strategy, but perhaps there isn't one...? (My own way o…

> I was hoping that there would be a "solution" of sorts to tackle / handle this issue of when EVERYBODY seems to use this strategy, but perhaps there isn't one...?

We're overdue for a major war, which will be reset on how we treat other humans by the end of it. Humans killing humans on an industrial scale between near-peers is followed by periods where people realize that maybe being dicks to each other isn't the ideal state. More cantankerous politicians being elected only increases the odds of war breaking out due to diplomatic failures.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#84

Post by bryanrasmussen »

borroka wrote: post #11

The article is way off base. Dorsey's playbook, if it even exists, isn't something to be ashamed of, especially in the context of Silicon Valley culture. Has the author never heard of Burning Man (obviously, she has and might have been more than once)? Zuck and Dorsey are two of the most common archetypes among tech company founders: the super nerd who only thinks about technology, and then money, and power, and the…

>Zelensky allowed himself and his wife to appear in what I consider to be an incredibly misguided and glamorous photo shoot published in Vanity Fair

following older narratives of gender dynamics it would commonly be thought that the wife wanted it, because hey, Vanity Fair! and got the husband to go along.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#85

Post by bsdz »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #79
marcus_holmes wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take an example: people who play music/video aloud on public transport. In Ye Olden Days of the last century, this would be a shameful act, and people would be shamed for doing it. In our enlightened modern times, people don't give a shit, and trying to shame them into not doing it is pointless. They are shameless about their selfishness, and apparently that's OK now. With the result, as others have said, that…

70–90% of people have functional object impermanence, and at least 50% have no inner dialogue no self awareness, no reflection. just impulse. me, me, me. blasting music in public, talking at max volume, slamming doors. taking 20 mins to use an ATM when it takes me 30 seconds. and so on.

> at least 50% have no inner dialogue

I'm not sure I trust this. A quick search finds a Psychology Today article about it along with a single reference. I lazily suspect the result is based on some type of questionnaire.

The way "chain of thought" is used in LLMs to improve reasoning demonstrates, to me at least, the value of capturing intermediate steps in some rich compressed structure. Nothing beats that than words and sentences (see them or hear them). A lot of ideas can't be captured with just photos alone imho.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#86

Post by bryanrasmussen »

borroka wrote: post #35
Spooky23 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff is an art. Andrew Cuomo was this weird sex symbol for awhile. Eventually people got sick of him, and the media people just pile on.

It's all about the situation and depends a lot on personality, the real one, not the facade, on intangibles (“aura”) and on never showing any weakness or offering apologies. Trump's strategy works because it/he has all the elements to do so. Has he ever offered apologies? Never. He always moves forward: the past is the past. From an appearance standpoint, he offers an easy target for his rivals. But why hasn't anyone…

I sort of think that Gavin Newsom has been hitting him recently, but I agree it seems to work because it is very much in his character the strategy that is being used.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#87

Post by jongjong »

I'm shameless but it's not a strategy, it's just that I have no pride (or shame) left. I've been reduced to a pair of eyeballs drifting through space and time.

If I avoid shame, it's to avoid consequences, not to maintain self-image.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#88

Post by ajuc »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #51
lovich wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was hoping that there would be a "solution" of sorts to tackle / handle this issue of when EVERYBODY seems to use this strategy, but perhaps there isn't one...? It’s called government regulation. There’s whole fields of research on how to solve an arbitrarily complicated Prisoner’s Dilemma. A lot of people are allergic to the idea because they don’t want to have limits on their behavior, only on others or on no o…

Government regulation of shameful behaviour? That's worked out wonderfully in the past.

Yes, it did. Despite all its shortcomings the invention of law has had a pretty obvious positive impact on our civilization.

Instinctive dismissal of government regulation like it could never solve any problem is a bias. Pretty common in tech circles, but still.

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#89

Post by ajuc »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #59
lovich wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European governments have regulations for anti social behaviors that curb some excesses and they haven’t collapsed. So I would agree, they have worked in the past

Give us some examples.

Why bother with these commie Europeans, let's start with US, shall we? Ever tried to walk naked in the middle of your city?

What is the reason it's not allowed?

Re: Shamelessness as a strategy (2019)

#90

Post by highfrequency »

> The “establishment” mistakenly assumes that a shameless person wants the approval of their community, when it turns out that, much like any cult or counterculture, that person’s goal was to attract a following, regardless of who the members are. The disgust of one’s peers doesn’t matter anymore, because that disgust forms the basis for an entirely new community.

This is a great point, and we can push it further. Perhaps the more powerful effect is that once the supporting fringe communities grow large and influential enough, the original establishment will move over to the shameless person’s camp. This happens swiftly, like dominoes falling, because the establishment’s opposition was actually not ideological to begin with but rather based on perception of the most socially acceptable / financially beneficial position at every moment.

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