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NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

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Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#81
Are we sure this isn’t Nvidia’s play to make what OpenAI is for Microsoft? Start with a bunch of non-profit, research-for-the-good-of-humanity promises before closing ranks and soliciting venture capital for its for-profit subsidiary?

I don’t want to be cynical, it’s just that the world has left very few options otherwise.

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The stated goal is US dominance of the AI field Any country tries to dominate any field if they can do it, it's just human nature. Why is that a bad thing? That constant competition for superiority between nations is how humanity has evolved from hunter gatherer to having tractors, microwave ovens, airplanes, internet and penicillin.

Yes, competition is good. Monopoly is bad. A more distributed power structure is much better for overall progress, and even for the monopolist in the long run (Ex: Intel).

>Monopoly is bad.

So what do you propose? Should the US stop development till other countries catch up?

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#83
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, competition is good. Monopoly is bad. A more distributed power structure is much better for overall progress, and even for the monopolist in the long run (Ex: Intel).

>Monopoly is bad. So what do you propose? Should the US stop development till other countries catch up?

Nah, I'd say just do more anti-monopoly anti-inequality work. Probably start internally, that's a massive enough task on its own (eg breaking up big tech). Assist other countries eg with aid if (and only if) they are doing the same. This is a big topic, ask your favorite frontier LLM about it.

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#84
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Monopoly is bad. So what do you propose? Should the US stop development till other countries catch up?

Nah, I'd say just do more anti-monopoly anti-inequality work. Probably start internally, that's a massive enough task on its own (eg breaking up big tech). Assist other countries eg with aid if (and only if) they are doing the same. This is a big topic, ask your favorite frontier LLM about it.

Unless China does the same that's an unrealistic ask. That would be like doing nuclear disarmament but only you and everyone else gets to keep their nukes.

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#85
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I'd say just do more anti-monopoly anti-inequality work. Probably start internally, that's a massive enough task on its own (eg breaking up big tech). Assist other countries eg with aid if (and only if) they are doing the same. This is a big topic, ask your favorite frontier LLM about it.

Unless China does the same that's an unrealistic ask. That would be like doing nuclear disarmament but only you and everyone else gets to keep their nukes.

Your "nukes" are leaking into the water supply. Inequality shows up a million different ways that Americans don't fully understand yet, eg inflation (dominant companies increasing profits), teacher shortages (low wages), student debt (not an issue for the wealthy so why fix it), housing prices (corporate landlords, exclusionary zoning), layoffs (despite record profits) etc etc. This situation (Trump/Musk/Bezos taking most of the gains) is just not long-term stable, and if any other country wants to do the same to themselves let them. The longer it goes the harder it will be to fix.

Again, go have this discussion with the LLM you trust, it's much more informative.

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very funny, the problem is more about the input than whatever the CPU is doing, as in chatGPT would be no more than a footnote without copyrighted material in all it's datasets.

We all stand on the shoulders of giants:)

It's clear that the giant didn't consent in this particular case.

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very funny, the problem is more about the input than whatever the CPU is doing, as in chatGPT would be no more than a footnote without copyrighted material in all it's datasets.

Not really?

They wouldn't have used copyrighted material if it wasn't a survival matter for them, but sure you go ahead and pretend that they just happen to use it and not really need it that much.

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#88
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because many of us are not from the US. The stated goal is US dominance of the AI field, and sorry if the rest of us don't see that as a good thing nor particularly open.

Good luck trying to raise money from a NATIONAL science foundation without it being in the NATIONAL interest.

I think there’s an interesting cultural phenomena when dominance and interest are seen as one and the same thing

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#89
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to the A.I. boom, Nvidia had a much, much more diverse customer base in terms of revenue mix. According to their 2015 annual report[1], their revenues were spread across the following revenue segments: gaming, automotive, enterprise, HPC and cloud, and PC and mobile OEMs. Gaming was the largest segment and contributed less than 50% of revenues. At this time, with a diverse customer base, their gross margins wer…

I'm not sure your analysis is apples to apples. Prior to the AI boom, the quality of GPUs slightly favored NVidia but AMD was a viable alternative. Also, there are scale differences between 2025 and before the AI boom -- simply put, there was more competition in the market for a smaller bucket and favorable winds on supplier production costs. Further, they just have better software tooling through CUDA. Since 2022 an…

I merely comment on the concentration of customers and how it has not at all hurt Nvidia's margins. In fact, they have expanded quite dramatically. All of your other points are moot.

> "rising costs"

Nvidia's margin expansion would suggest otherwise. Or at least, the costs are not scaling with volume/pricing. Again, all we need to do is look at the margins.

> "their position quite untenable ... But until ROCm is at least _easy_ nothing will happen there"

Seems like you're contradicting yourself. Not sure what point you're trying to make. Bottom line is, there is absolutely no concern about monopsony as suggested by the GP. Revenue is booming and margins are expanding. Will it last? Who knows. Fat margins tend to invite competition.

Re: NSF and Nvidia award Ai2 $152M to support building an open AI ecosystem

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to the A.I. boom, Nvidia had a much, much more diverse customer base in terms of revenue mix. According to their 2015 annual report[1], their revenues were spread across the following revenue segments: gaming, automotive, enterprise, HPC and cloud, and PC and mobile OEMs. Gaming was the largest segment and contributed less than 50% of revenues. At this time, with a diverse customer base, their gross margins wer…

Nobody said this was the case... The only example I used was the console market which has been ruined because of this issue. They generally left that market because it was that horrible.

This whole subthread is about the claim that Nvidia is at risk of a monopsony situation. I pointed out that while revenue has concentrated on a few customers post-AI boom, margins have improved, suggesting Nvidia is nowhere near and not veering toward that risk. Revenue is exploding, as are margins.
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