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Open Banking and Payments Competition

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Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#81

Post by fragmede »

toenail wrote: post #17
ranger207 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto and blockchain by itself does not solve any of these problems. It's merely a payments system that happens to be on a computer natively. There's nothing technical preventing banks from getting together and making Open Banking a well-supported thing like they're supposed to be doing; it's all just code and contracts in the end. It's not that they can't , it's that they won't , and they won't for business and pol…

The idea that I’d need anybody’s permission or a regulation to allow me to give my money to somebody else is the problem.

As an honest person, that makes sense. Unfortunately, the world is filled with people who are not. If I have to give my money to Alice to give it to Bob because Alice is the only person with a way to get it to Bob, I'm trusting Alice to just do that. But Alice is a business woman and is doing this for lots of people. One day, Alice just disappears with everybody's money. All of the people that relied on Alice to get money to Bob just got screwed. So then they make a bunch of rules and regulations so that doesn't happen again.

MTLs, money transmission licenses exist to say you can’t legally handle other people’s money without proving you’re trustworthy, solvent, and compliant with anti-crime laws.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#82

Post by tossandthrow »

toenail wrote: post #73
zaik wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't receive my salary in Bitcoin and I can't pay my groceries, rent or taxes with it. People own Bitcoin because they expect prices to rise further, not for its utility.

Lol, I was paid in bitcoin and have paid for all kinds of stuff in bitcoin. That you don't is meaningless to me. People own Bitcoin because they know that fiat money is guaranteed to lose value. If you don't see the utility of having a money that can't be printed out of thin air, I congratulate you for being financially privileged.

There are some huge misunderstanding here:

You might have been paid in bit coins, but the value of these bitcoins has to be declared at the day of transfer so you can pay taxes in your local fiat currency.

Nobody are disputing that it is a really bad idea to hold cash above an emergency fund. Everyone is highly discouraging you from doing it. Buy ETFs, stocks, houses, cars, cyrpto whatever you need - just don't hold large amounts of cash.

All in all, it makes a very little difference what you are paid in - just that you have extra hoops to pay your taxes now that you are paid in bitcoins.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#83

Post by toenail »

tossandthrow wrote: post #82
toenail wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, I was paid in bitcoin and have paid for all kinds of stuff in bitcoin. That you don't is meaningless to me. People own Bitcoin because they know that fiat money is guaranteed to lose value. If you don't see the utility of having a money that can't be printed out of thin air, I congratulate you for being financially privileged.

There are some huge misunderstanding here: You might have been paid in bit coins, but the value of these bitcoins has to be declared at the day of transfer so you can pay taxes in your local fiat currency. Nobody are disputing that it is a really bad idea to hold cash above an emergency fund. Everyone is highly discouraging you from doing it. Buy ETFs, stocks, houses, cars, cyrpto whatever you need - just don't hold…

I pay zero taxes on bitcoin, legally.

> Nobody are disputing that it is a really bad idea to hold cash above an emergency fund. Everyone is highly discouraging you from doing it.

So you know that modern money doesn't fulfill one of the central uses of money that was known since the antiquity: store of value. And you know that people have to waste time to learn about investments instead of working their jobs and enjoying their time off. But you still think fiat money is great?

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#84

Post by astrange »

toenail wrote: post #75
astrange wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second law of thermodynamics devalues the money you earned. There's no way you can have $10 that always and forever buys the same things $10 currently does. Central banks keep its value higher than the alternative, as anyone who doesn't have oppositional defiance disorder would notice from the fact that we haven't had a Great Depression lately. Because it really gets devalued if there's an economic collapse and a…

Have you ever heard of gold? That didn't continuously lose value. I'm sorry to hear you believe the nonsense modern economists, bankers and politicians tell you.

What is "value" here?

If you value being able to purchase a specific good X, and they stop making it, then you now don't have currency capable of buying it. Doesn't matter what kind of currency it is.

If you're using value in dollar value, that asset has the price behavior it does because we live in a stable economy with central banks, 2% inflation targeting and so on. You haven't seen the alternative because you'd be on the street.

What you want is TIPS bonds.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#85

Post by tossandthrow »

toenail wrote: post #83
tossandthrow wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some huge misunderstanding here: You might have been paid in bit coins, but the value of these bitcoins has to be declared at the day of transfer so you can pay taxes in your local fiat currency. Nobody are disputing that it is a really bad idea to hold cash above an emergency fund. Everyone is highly discouraging you from doing it. Buy ETFs, stocks, houses, cars, cyrpto whatever you need - just don't hold…

I pay zero taxes on bitcoin, legally. > Nobody are disputing that it is a really bad idea to hold cash above an emergency fund. Everyone is highly discouraging you from doing it. So you know that modern money doesn't fulfill one of the central uses of money that was known since the antiquity: store of value. And you know that people have to waste time to learn about investments instead of working their jobs and enjoy…

> I pay zero taxes on bitcoin, legally.

This explains your excitement! Great that you can leach on other people.

> But you still think fiat money is great?

Seriously, where did you get that from? I never argued for fiat money. I just said that bitcoins is not a currency by the ordinary understanding of a currency.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#86

Post by devman0 »

Animats wrote: post #13

Remember the Synapse/Yotta/Evolve collapse.[1] That is what happens when a fintech startup has authority to manipulate customer bank accounts but is not financially strong enough to handle problems. [1] https://apnews.com/article/synapse-evolve-bank-fintech-accou...

I would argue, the issue is that they had exclusive control over the customers bank accounts. I have no problem with fintech that integrates with existing accounts over the top.

The issue is with fintechs that are not really banks, so they keep your money in a "program bank" where you are not the direct customer. You can't go to the program bank and say Fintech XYZ went belly up and I want my money, because you are not the banks direct customer (even though in some cases your name is legally on the account for FDIC insurance reasons).

Open banking tech is way more about the former than the latter.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#87

Post by Jommi »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allow…

just move everything to a public chain and it becomes easy

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#88

Post by Jommi »

sunaookami wrote: post #45
gethly wrote: post #30

The entire banking industry is the most backwards, outdated and barely functioning sector in the whole world. I have no clue how we have not yet collapsed the financial system via some hack or basic data loss.

As someone working in fintech (in Europe): I agree. People always say "well at least it's tested and works!" but fintech is pure bullshittery. We wrap shiny new apps over 30 year old legacy systems written in C++ and bank employees need to constantly correct data manually. I know from a bank that has only one employee that knows about the whole system and nobody knows what happens when they retire (is already aged >5…

use the open source tech made for public blockchains and use that to build new banking rales for public/semi public banking networks

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#89

Post by kkfx »

elric wrote: post #32
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allow…

> allowed to wall in their data with no API access There's PSD2 in the EU (or Eurozone? Not sure actually). Basically forces banks to open common APIs to encourage interopability and competition. However, it's not aimed at users but rather at companies in fintech building applications. Some banks (Bunq comes to mind) offer APIs to their customers for direct use, but most don't. The reason is obviously security. Peopl…

It's for SEPA area BUT it's mandatory open only for PSPs/financial institutions cutting out end customers... Also most banks have a terribly limited support. Personally I use OpenBank APUs (PSD2/DSP2) for some banks (ironically via a Canadian operator, GoCardless) and well... generic accounts are supported, stocks are not, bank cards are not etc, most exports have very poor quality.

Long story short I can auto-import in Firefly III from EU banks only via a Canadian company and the quality of the process NOT due to GoCardless but due to local banks is terrible...

That's why stablecoins are booming...

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#90

Post by Jommi »

mightypirate wrote: post #47

with all the self-custody crypto cards available right now I completely stopped using bank accounts. Can easily pull the data from the ledger and automate payments as I wish

yup, MiCA makign euroepa nstablecoins akin to real money, so stables like monerium can be used just like if you used revolut and a card from revolut

its crazy and its here today

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