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Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

leonardo.chiariglione.org

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Re: Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

#81

Post by rowanG077 »

astrange wrote: post #79
Taek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I avoided a career in codecs after spending about a year in college learning about them. The patent minefield meant I couldn't meaningfully build incremental improvements on what existed, and the idea of dilligently dancing around existing patents and then releasing something which intentionally lacked state-of-the-art ideas wasn't compelling. Codec development is slow and expensive becuase you can't just release a n…

Software patents aren't an issue in much of the world; the reason I thought there wasn't much of a career in codec development was that it was obvious that it needed to move down into custom ASICs to be power-efficient, at which point you can no longer develop new ones until people replace all their hardware.

Software patents aren't an issue in most of the world. Codecs however are used all over the world. No one is going to use a codec that is illegal to use in the US and EU.

Re: Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

#82

Post by selvan »

May be, we are couple of years away from experiencing patent free video codecs based on deep learning.

DCVC-RT (https://github.com/microsoft/DCVC) - A deep learning based video codec claims to deliver 21% more compression than h266.

One of the compelling edge AI usecases is to create deep learning based audio/video codecs on consumer hardwares.

One of the large/enterprise AI usecases is to create a coding model that generates deep learning based audio/video codecs for consumer hardwares.

Re: Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

#83

Post by marcodiego »

maxloh wrote: post #80
marcodiego wrote: post #71

> My Christian Catholic education made and still makes me think that everybody should have a mission that extends beyond their personal interests. I remember this same guy complaining investments in the MPEG extortionist group would disappear because they couldn't fight against AV1. He was part of a patent Mafia is is only lamenting he lost power. Hypocrisy in its finest form.

Any link to his comment?

> all the investments (collectively hundreds of millions USD) made by the industry for the new video codec will go up in smoke and AOM’s royalty free model will spread to other business segments as well.

https://blog.chiariglione.org/a-crisis-the-causes-and-a-solu...

He is not a coder, not a researcher, he is only part of the worst game there is in this industry: a money maker from patents and "standards" you need to pay for to use, implement or claim compatibility.

Re: Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

#84

Post by pjc50 »

ddtaylor wrote: post #38
jl6 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has long been recognised that the state of the art in data compression has much in common with the state of the art in AI, for example: http://prize.hutter1.net/ https://bellard.org/nncp/

Some view these as so interconnected that they will say LLMs are "just" compression.

Which is an interesting view when applied to the IP. I think it's relatively uncontroversial that an MP4 file which "predicts" a Disney movie which it was "trained on" is a derived work. Suppose you have an LLM which was trained on a fairly small set of movies and you could produce any one on demand; would that be treated as a derived work?

If you have a predictor/compressor LLM which was trained on all the movies in the world, would that not also be infringement?

Re: Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

#85

Post by somethingsome »

thinkingQueen wrote: post #9
wheybags wrote: post #2

As someone who hasn't had any exposure to the human stories behind mpeg before, it feels to me like it's been a force for evil since long before 2020. Patents on h264, h265, and even mp3 have been holding the industry back for decades. Imagine what we might have if their iron grip on codecs was broken.

Who would develop those codecs? A good video coding engineer costs about 100-300k USD a year. The really good ones even more. You need a lot of them. JVET has an attendance of about 350 such engineers each meeting (four times a year). Not to mention the computer clusters to run all the coding sims, thousands and thousands of CPUs are needed per research team. People who are outside the video coding industry do not un…

Hey, I attend MPEG regularly (mostly lvc lately), there's a chance we’ve crossed paths!

Re: Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

#87

Post by notpushkin »

lightedman wrote: post #65
mike_hearn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, nothing. Codec development is slow and expensive. Free codecs only came along at all because Google decided to subsidize development but that became possible only 15 years or so after MPEG was born, and it's hardly a robust strategy. Plus free codecs were often built by acquiring companies that had previously been using IP licensing as a business model rather than from-scratch development.

"Free codecs only came along at all because Google decided to subsidize development" No, just no. We've had free community codec packs for years before Google even existed. Anyone remember CCCP?

Yes. Those won’t help you if you use them for commercial use and patent holders find out about it.

Re: Leonardo Chiariglione – Co-founder of MPEG

#89

Post by leguminous »

lightedman wrote: post #65
mike_hearn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, nothing. Codec development is slow and expensive. Free codecs only came along at all because Google decided to subsidize development but that became possible only 15 years or so after MPEG was born, and it's hardly a robust strategy. Plus free codecs were often built by acquiring companies that had previously been using IP licensing as a business model rather than from-scratch development.

"Free codecs only came along at all because Google decided to subsidize development" No, just no. We've had free community codec packs for years before Google even existed. Anyone remember CCCP?

CCCP was just a collection of existing codecs, they didn't develop their own. Most of the codecs in CCCP were patented. Using it without licenses was technically patent infringement in most places. It's just that nobody ever cared to enforce it on individual end users.
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