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Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

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Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#81

Post by Aurornis »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #67
SilverElfin wrote: post #2

> Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it. To me this makes it less interesting. I would be amazed if the original parts (outside of what gets replaced for maintenance) lasted that long. But it’s hard to judge how durable the car is when everything has been replaced

I don't think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to last that long, with regular usage, and have original parts. The fact that the owner can keep it going is a testament to the maintainability of combustion engines that don't have high tech computers in them.

> The fact that the owner can keep it going is a testament to the maintainability of combustion engines that don't have high tech computers in them.

New engines with modern ECUs are every bit as maintainable.

The ECU doesn’t make an engine less maintainable. Modern engines would have more moving pieces such as variable valve timing but otherwise they’re very similar in concept and maintenance.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#82

Post by amluto »

_heimdall wrote: post #75
physix wrote: post #57

When I lived in Germany, in the 90s, I regularly sat in diesel Mercedes Benz taxis with over a million kms under the hood. Private drivers usually. Many had giant mileages. We used to say (tongue in cheek) that after 250k, the MB diesel engine was broken in. I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.

No diesel engine is made well these days in my opinion, at least as far as passenger vehicles go. Emissions systems on diesel engines have made the reliability pretty abysmal. That's not to say improving emissions isn't a good goal, but it was implemented terribly. Between regulators over prescribing solutions and car companies finding the quickest and cheapest "fix" every step of the way, we ended with horribly comp…

Given that one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic, I would expect that the (non-CO2) air pollution from an old diesel is far higher than that from building and operating new diesel vehicles.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#83

Post by vehemenz »

jbeard4 wrote: post #69

> Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it. It’s the Tercel of Theseus: if every part has been replaced, is it still the same car? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

The answer isn't as sexy as the question. Ontological questions, and therefore mereological questions, are a matter of convention based on how closely-associated relations—like how the "parts" of the "car" function—cohere over space and time.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#84

Post by jorams »

griffzhowl wrote: post #24
bot403 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact, on average most (not all though) of the cells in your body are brand new after 7 years. When do you stop being you and take a new name?

This kind of thing is repeated often, but I don't think it's true. For one thing, how would tattoos last so long then? More relevantly, I don't think neurons are replaced. There must be some material churn in the atoms and molecules that make them up, but even then different for different molecules - e.g. I don't know how much of our DNA molecules get replaced over a lifespan from the repair or other mechanisms.

The "on average" is doing an awful lot of work. Some cells are never replaced, some organs are replaced every few years or even partially over decades, some organs are replaced every few months (one of which is the skin).

Tattoos however, IIUC, sort of "float" between cells, and as those cells are replaced one-by-one the ink is kept in place by the surrounding cells that are still there.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#85

Post by protimewaster »

physix wrote: post #57

When I lived in Germany, in the 90s, I regularly sat in diesel Mercedes Benz taxis with over a million kms under the hood. Private drivers usually. Many had giant mileages. We used to say (tongue in cheek) that after 250k, the MB diesel engine was broken in. I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.

Those MB diesels made it to the States too, and they were equally well respected here in my experience. Although, there's long been a diesel aversion among some part of the population here, so it was maybe a narrower subset of the population familiar with the legend of the MB diesels.

I drove one for years, acquired when they were available as a quite cheap ~15 year old car. I've since switched to a Toyota and been quite happy with that. I don't know how long the current Toyotas will last, but the golden era Toyotas I think probably last about as well as the legendary MB diesels (with the bonus of not having to track down vacuum leaks).

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#86

Post by Aurornis »

epolanski wrote: post #15
SilverElfin wrote: post #2

> Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it. To me this makes it less interesting. I would be amazed if the original parts (outside of what gets replaced for maintenance) lasted that long. But it’s hard to judge how durable the car is when everything has been replaced

I mean, it depends on the kind of work to be honest. Has he ever had to replace the whole engine or something? Because if you get chain timing issues on a 2010 BMW diesel, you ain't repairing that, it's more expensive than a new car.

> Because if you get chain timing issues on a 2010 BMW diesel, you ain't repairing that, it's more expensive than a new car.

In the article the guy has 3 whole spare cars for donor parts and he does all the work himself. He’s not paying mechanic rates or even buying new parts (which are no longer available).

The amount of time and effort he’s put into this car is undoubtedly more expensive than buying a new car at this point, unless you count his time and free.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#87

Post by Arubis »

physix wrote: post #57

When I lived in Germany, in the 90s, I regularly sat in diesel Mercedes Benz taxis with over a million kms under the hood. Private drivers usually. Many had giant mileages. We used to say (tongue in cheek) that after 250k, the MB diesel engine was broken in. I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.

You can still find these things running all over west Africa.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#88

Post by Our_Benefactors »

eptcyka wrote: post #25
diggan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you ain't repairing that, it's more expensive than a new car. Sometimes we're more connected/sentimental about specific physical items, than the prices themselves. I kind of feel like you have to be a special sort of person to own a BMW, so wouldn't surprise me that same "special" person would pay more to repair their specific car than replacing it with an identical one but without that issue.

Doubt there’s a BMW enthusiast that will go out of their way to repair a 2010s diesel.

For a manual 335d people would yeah.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#89

Post by formerly_proven »

amluto wrote: post #82
_heimdall wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No diesel engine is made well these days in my opinion, at least as far as passenger vehicles go. Emissions systems on diesel engines have made the reliability pretty abysmal. That's not to say improving emissions isn't a good goal, but it was implemented terribly. Between regulators over prescribing solutions and car companies finding the quickest and cheapest "fix" every step of the way, we ended with horribly comp…

Given that one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic, I would expect that the (non-CO2) air pollution from an old diesel is far higher than that from building and operating new diesel vehicles.

Even then, a EURO5 diesel still makes quite a stink. Of course, even an EU6+OPF gasoline car still puts out air akin to a dying dog's fart.

ICE vehicles just can't go away quickly enough (and we should aggressively get stinky vehicles like everything pre-EU5 and loud vehicles like motorcycles and scooters off the road first).

I'm not huge on regulation, but if anything MIV is underregulated. Even in the EU anything that was street-legal at some point in the past 70 years is grandfathered in, nevermind that illegal vehicle modifications - if caught - at most earn a slap on the wrist. That's enormously dumb and doesn't fly anywhere else.

Re: Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

#90

Post by jmb99 »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #67
SilverElfin wrote: post #2

> Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it. To me this makes it less interesting. I would be amazed if the original parts (outside of what gets replaced for maintenance) lasted that long. But it’s hard to judge how durable the car is when everything has been replaced

I don't think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to last that long, with regular usage, and have original parts. The fact that the owner can keep it going is a testament to the maintainability of combustion engines that don't have high tech computers in them.

> I don't think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to last that long, with regular usage, and have original parts.

I know of at least two cars with 800k km with original engines. Both GM small blocks (Gen 2, multiport fuel injection so computer-controlled). Neither engine has been opened since they rolled off the floor in the 90s. They’re not particularly efficient (only about 270HP out of 5.7L) but if taken care of, they probably will go forever.

Definitely an exception, though. Very little else on those cars is still original. But it can be done.

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