I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned • Hacker News Board

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#81

Post by diek » Mon, Sep 03, 2012, 11:51 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #75

petercooper wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would actually say that? Sounds like you've had some experience of this. A lot of conservatives misinterpreted something Obama said as meaning much of what you've said, even though if one reads the entire paragraph, the "that" in his sentence was infrastructure such as the Internet, roads and bridges.

Even if "that" refers to infrastructure, he would be dead wrong. First of all, infrastructure is not built for a particular business or businesses. It's was built --with a HUGE emphasis on "was"-- because it was identified as a necessity for progress and other factors. Most roads in the US were built decades ago. The project started in 1956. It's interesting to read the "Financing" section on Wikipedia: http://en.wik…

A few logical issues... the Interstate Highway System is an ongoing investment. It may have started in 1956, but it requires constant upkeep which, as you pointed out, is covered by taxes.

The fellow you mention launching a web development business today may not owe his success to government because his desk was shipped using infrastructure, but he does owe his success (in part) to the research investment that created ARPAnet.

Also, if you're hiring for a technology business, you're relying on the network of universities across the country to produce competent graduates. You also depend on taxes you pay for police, fire department, and the military to maintain a rule of law that enables your business to exist.

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#82

Post by ktizo » Mon, Sep 03, 2012, 11:55 PM UTC

javert wrote: post #74

petercooper wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would actually say that? Sounds like you've had some experience of this. A lot of conservatives misinterpreted something Obama said as meaning much of what you've said, even though if one reads the entire paragraph, the "that" in his sentence was infrastructure such as the Internet, roads and bridges.

That is a lie. The "that" is business. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. I just looked up the speech.

Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

I just looked up the speech as well. The 'that' would seem to be referring to the 'somebody' who built infrastructure. You could read it the other way I suppose, but only if you thought it was a separate statement meant to stand apart from the rest of the paragraph that is enclosing it, which wouldn't make much sense.

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#83

Post by jebblue » Mon, Sep 03, 2012, 11:59 PM UTC

thaumaturgy wrote: post #60

bartonfink wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just insane. People working on start-ups do not, as a matter of course, risk their lives in the same way soldiers in a war do. I'd challenge you to point to anyone doing a tech startup who has lost a limb due to an IED. A start-up may very well change a person more than spending the same time at a job would, but to compare it to going through war shows an incredible amount of naivety about how horrible war act…

You're not replying to what he said, you're replying to what you think he said. He didn't say that founders "risk their lives in the same way soldiers in a war do"; he said, "A start-up changes a person in the same way a war does." Sure, war can change a person in ways that a start-up never will -- if a soldier loses a limb for example. But do you really, honestly think that andrew was trying to imply that start-up f…

>> You're not replying to what he said, you're replying to what you think he said.

He said "blood". I think you are not understanding the unfounded discourse of the comparison.

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#84

Post by robomartin » Tue, Sep 04, 2012, 12:00 AM UTC

mehulkar wrote: post #41

andrewljohnson wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A start-up changes a person in the same way a war does - trauma, triumph, battle, and blood. If you aren't changed after you start up, it probably wasn't your first time.

This sounds a bit like hyperbole. People don't die from startups.

I know at least one person who died in 2009 due to stress caused by business problems. This happened after two years of intense pressure and suffering. Depression, not eating well, not sleeping enough and other factors converged. One morning a stroke followed by a series of heart attacks ended his life.

I have personally ended-up in the hospital with intense palpitations due to a combination of stress, lack of sleep and dehydration all as a result of business issues. There's nothing wrong with me or my heart, today I regularly swim 1500m and participate in Master's competitions and training. Over time I learned to deal with business stress in various ways (swimming is part of it).

So, yes, it isn't military service but don't make the mistake of thinking that stress-related disorders --and even death-- are monopolized by soldiers.

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#85

Post by ktizo » Tue, Sep 04, 2012, 12:10 AM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #79

ktizo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some asshole will tell you that you didn't actually build your business. I though the whole thing was very similar to Carl Sagan's comment - If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. - and I never thought that Carl Sagan was having a go at bakers.

Right. The difference is that Carl Sagan didn't use such comments to instigate and exploit class warfare and divide a country. Carl Sagan didn't use such statements to brainwash the masses for personal gain. Carl Sagan didn't use that statement to mean that a successful baker, today, owes their success to the creation of the universe. We operate within the reality that we happen to live within at the time of our live…

It is an insult to the human condition to propose that we owe our personal success to government.

All ownership rights that are not built on direct possession are down to the social contract of government. Without that you would have no rights to anything that you cannot personally defend. This is really the only reason why we put up with government, despite all the associated crap that goes along with it. We like being able to leave the parcel of land we have claimed without having to leave someone on it permanently to make sure it is still there to return to when we get back.

Individuals don't go to war, governments do.

They wouldn't get very far without the soldiers.

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#86

Post by notlisted » Tue, Sep 04, 2012, 12:11 AM UTC

Wasigh, are you Dutch? If so, please ignore all the silly American right-wingers below (stelletje suffe sound bite sukkels).

A "smarter" way to resign voluntarily, in Holland, is to gather proof with regards to your mental state/wellbeing, e.g. if there's a track record of you being "overspannen" (tr: burnt out) you would, with the right evidence, still be able to apply of unemployment benefits. Instead of quitting, call in sick, make an appointment with your Dr. and if he/she signs the appropriate paperwork, you can dissolve your contract "amicably" (ontbinding met wederzijds goedkeuren) which, in some cases, would allow you to retain the right to apply for WW (unemployment benefits).

Just in case you are in the US: depending on the state you live in, one may still qualify for unemployment benefits even if you quit yourself for "good cause" (it's actually somewhat similar to the Dutch situation, ie you need proof of undue stress, demands by your boss exceeding your contract, changes in job description/responsibilities, health reasons, family reasons, unsafe working environment, etc. etc.). Details vary by state, see http://jobsearch.about.com/od/unemployment/a/unemploymentoff...

Note: I've been self-employed for 10+ years now. Love it now, but many of the points outlined elsewhere are extremely valid... Don't think lightly about this decision. It's a big change, and despite the admiration for the entrepreneurial spirit in the USA, the deck is really stacked against you (think: healthcare, taxes, etc. etc.)

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#87

Post by thaumaturgy » Tue, Sep 04, 2012, 12:15 AM UTC

jebblue wrote: post #83

thaumaturgy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not replying to what he said, you're replying to what you think he said. He didn't say that founders "risk their lives in the same way soldiers in a war do"; he said, "A start-up changes a person in the same way a war does." Sure, war can change a person in ways that a start-up never will -- if a soldier loses a limb for example. But do you really, honestly think that andrew was trying to imply that start-up f…

>> You're not replying to what he said, you're replying to what you think he said. He said "blood". I think you are not understanding the unfounded discourse of the comparison.

Look, if you really want to debate this, I could try to defend what he said, but I will have to assume you actually believe that andrew -- a fellow intelligent human being -- was trying to put business owners on an equal footing with soldiers in war. I think that would say more about you than it would about him, and I don't want to think that you're that dumb. I'd prefer to believe that you're much smarter than that, that you recognize how pointless such an argument would be because there's no way that a reasonable person would really believe that business owners are just like soldiers at war.

Or, we can leave my comment to stand by itself as a simple plea for more civility.

So which would you prefer? That we leave this alone and make HN a slightly better place by assuming a charitable reading of what a fellow person wrote, or that we get into a stupid argument that makes us both look increasingly foolish until pg has to step in to admonish us to knock it off?

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#88

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 04, 2012, 12:19 AM UTC

diek wrote: post #81

robomartin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if "that" refers to infrastructure, he would be dead wrong. First of all, infrastructure is not built for a particular business or businesses. It's was built --with a HUGE emphasis on "was"-- because it was identified as a necessity for progress and other factors. Most roads in the US were built decades ago. The project started in 1956. It's interesting to read the "Financing" section on Wikipedia: http://en.wik…

A few logical issues... the Interstate Highway System is an ongoing investment. It may have started in 1956, but it requires constant upkeep which, as you pointed out, is covered by taxes. The fellow you mention launching a web development business today may not owe his success to government because his desk was shipped using infrastructure, but he does owe his success (in part ) to the research investment that creat…

[deleted]

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#89

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 04, 2012, 12:19 AM UTC

diek wrote: post #81

robomartin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if "that" refers to infrastructure, he would be dead wrong. First of all, infrastructure is not built for a particular business or businesses. It's was built --with a HUGE emphasis on "was"-- because it was identified as a necessity for progress and other factors. Most roads in the US were built decades ago. The project started in 1956. It's interesting to read the "Financing" section on Wikipedia: http://en.wik…

A few logical issues... the Interstate Highway System is an ongoing investment. It may have started in 1956, but it requires constant upkeep which, as you pointed out, is covered by taxes. The fellow you mention launching a web development business today may not owe his success to government because his desk was shipped using infrastructure, but he does owe his success (in part ) to the research investment that creat…

[deleted]

Re: I did the scariest thing I can imagine: I resigned

#90

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Sep 04, 2012, 12:19 AM UTC

diek wrote: post #81

robomartin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if "that" refers to infrastructure, he would be dead wrong. First of all, infrastructure is not built for a particular business or businesses. It's was built --with a HUGE emphasis on "was"-- because it was identified as a necessity for progress and other factors. Most roads in the US were built decades ago. The project started in 1956. It's interesting to read the "Financing" section on Wikipedia: http://en.wik…

A few logical issues... the Interstate Highway System is an ongoing investment. It may have started in 1956, but it requires constant upkeep which, as you pointed out, is covered by taxes. The fellow you mention launching a web development business today may not owe his success to government because his desk was shipped using infrastructure, but he does owe his success (in part ) to the research investment that creat…

Not many tech startups being started in countries without governments (e.g., Somalia). Google was started by a couple of Stanford grad students who surely were being funded by DRAPA or NSF while they were coming up with their big idea.

I think what the parent poster wants is something like radical feudalism, where your patrons and infrastructure comes from rich land owners (i.e. lords), rather the government, like it was in the good ole days (i.e. medieval times).