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Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

magazine.uc.edu

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Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#81

Post by gmueckl »

perihelions wrote: post #6

These things were mainly publicity stunts. The supposed biohazard quarantine for returning Apollo astronauts was a theater performance, too. https://www.livescience.com/space/the-moon/the-apollo-moon-l... ( "The Apollo moon landing was real, but NASA's quarantine procedure was not" ) https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/science/nasa-moon-quarant... ( "A review of archives suggests that efforts to protect Earth from con…

I see that customs declaration in the context of the Outer Space Treaty from 1967. It stipulates that outer space cannot be appropriated by by any nation. My hypothesis here is that the political message underneath this customs form stunt is an acknowledgement that the crew has left the United States and returned. However, I have nothing that supports this claim.

Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#82

Post by bitwize »

metabagel wrote: post #45
bitwize wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These French customs officials seemed more on the ball than the one I encountered. (Checked my passport, but didn't stamp it, causing problems for me upon landing for my next leg in Helsinki.)

I don’t think there is any requirement to stamp passports. Some people specifically ask for a stamp, because they want the memento.

The stamp is acknowledgement of your tourist visa. Maybe EU citizens don't need one, but as an American entering France I certainly did. If I didn't, I sure wish the visibly armed Finnish lady who led me back near one of those beat-you-up interrogation rooms had known, it could've saved us both some hassle and me a major scare.

Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#83

Post by csomar »

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #80
Lammy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The practical value is reinforcing among the general public the idea that humans should not be able to move freely around their own planet. In the future only money will have that right. The modern passport didn't even exist until World War Ⅰ: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521634938 / https://archive.org/details/pdfy-S0NQwPjPkMlzZ2eS/mode/2up

"modern passport not existing in past" ≠ "free human movement" borders have largely had guards, who had no obligation to let people through, or even to treat them fairly and not rob them. frontiers had bandits who existed solely to prey on travelers. even if you could move to a different settlement, you did not have the same legal rights as citizens of that city. the "modern passport" has done more for free human mov…

Cities had guards. There was no border pre-1900 because there was no tech to enforce it. If you moved from one place to another, you were mostly at the whims of thieves and pirates.

Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#84

Post by Alupis »

csomar wrote: post #83
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"modern passport not existing in past" ≠ "free human movement" borders have largely had guards, who had no obligation to let people through, or even to treat them fairly and not rob them. frontiers had bandits who existed solely to prey on travelers. even if you could move to a different settlement, you did not have the same legal rights as citizens of that city. the "modern passport" has done more for free human mov…

Cities had guards. There was no border pre-1900 because there was no tech to enforce it. If you moved from one place to another, you were mostly at the whims of thieves and pirates.

Pre-1900? Are you aware of how many wars were fought around the world just in the 1800's regarding border and territory disputes?

Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#87

Post by School-Cotton »

gmueckl wrote: post #81
perihelions wrote: post #6

These things were mainly publicity stunts. The supposed biohazard quarantine for returning Apollo astronauts was a theater performance, too. https://www.livescience.com/space/the-moon/the-apollo-moon-l... ( "The Apollo moon landing was real, but NASA's quarantine procedure was not" ) https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/science/nasa-moon-quarant... ( "A review of archives suggests that efforts to protect Earth from con…

I see that customs declaration in the context of the Outer Space Treaty from 1967. It stipulates that outer space cannot be appropriated by by any nation. My hypothesis here is that the political message underneath this customs form stunt is an acknowledgement that the crew has left the United States and returned. However, I have nothing that supports this claim.

Do US Navy sailors in international waters have to go through customs on returning to port in the US? I don’t know the answer, but that’s probably the closest analogy.

Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#88

Post by csomar »

yardie wrote: post #20

I did a 1100m passage from Puerto Rico to Miami. Anchored in the Bahamas bank but didn't step on land. And when we arrived in the US we weren't required to clear in since our last port of departure was PR. Pretty sure they were tracking us by drone, blimp, AIS, and radar the entire way because they weren't suspicious enough compared to my previous experiences. Curious why Apollo 11 would have to clear customs since t…

> Pretty sure they were tracking us by drone, blimp, AIS, and radar the entire way because they weren't suspicious enough compared to my previous experiences.

Probably none of that. The border check is a bureaucratic operation. Modern day border checks are 0% contraband, 1% terrorism and 99% just messing with the public.

Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#89

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

csomar wrote: post #83
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"modern passport not existing in past" ≠ "free human movement" borders have largely had guards, who had no obligation to let people through, or even to treat them fairly and not rob them. frontiers had bandits who existed solely to prey on travelers. even if you could move to a different settlement, you did not have the same legal rights as citizens of that city. the "modern passport" has done more for free human mov…

Cities had guards. There was no border pre-1900 because there was no tech to enforce it. If you moved from one place to another, you were mostly at the whims of thieves and pirates.

Insanely misinformed.

What kind of tech do you imagine is needed? Have you heard of Hadrian's Wall? The Great Wall of China?

Or more generally: forts, outposts, coastal batteries, scouts, patrols?

Re: Neil Armstrong's customs form for moon rocks (2016)

#90

Post by nickff »

cgriswald wrote: post #69
perihelions wrote: post #6

These things were mainly publicity stunts. The supposed biohazard quarantine for returning Apollo astronauts was a theater performance, too. https://www.livescience.com/space/the-moon/the-apollo-moon-l... ( "The Apollo moon landing was real, but NASA's quarantine procedure was not" ) https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/science/nasa-moon-quarant... ( "A review of archives suggests that efforts to protect Earth from con…

The actual claims of the paper are not that this was 'for show', but that NASA considered the risks unlikely and prioritized the more likely risks to the astronauts lives. I see how the authors got to 'so it was all for show', but it simply isn't true. There is plenty of evidence that the risk was taken seriously (regulations and treaties surrounding the issue, ICBC activities in the years prior to launch, the expens…

On one of the Apollo documentaries (I can't remember which one), the astronauts joked that it was the least effective quarantine ever; they talked about how there was a stream of ants going in and out of the Airstream they were in.
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