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Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

nytimes.com

81–90 of 361 posts

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#81
post #71

Are lung cancer rates up? Obviously eliminating or reducing the primary cause will lead to larger percentages of the other causes among cases.

Yeah, this title for the article is really terrible. The "why" that scientists are investigating is not why many lung cancers aren't in nonsmokers. The "why" they are investigating is "why are these non smokers getting cancer?". Once smoking stops being such a dominant cause, you put more energy into the other cases.

It would be radon, wouldn’t it?

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a house in the hills of Los Angeles and we tested for radon. Turned out it was very high, and LA is one of the few places in California that has high radon. We got it mitigated, and it wasn't that expensive. I talked to neighbors and real estate agents, and no one wanted to know anything about it. I was shocked. Everyone is pulling the wool over their own eyes here.

> We got it mitigated, and it wasn't that expensive What's the process, usually, adding some special ventilation system to the house?

I’m actually scheduled for an install next Monday. Mine has two components:

1. The ventilation isn’t really “in the house” - the fan pulls from below the slab (and exhausts outside) to prevent radon seeping through. 2. Based on the best guess about my home age/area and radon patterns in my house, the slab was probably poured around the furnace, so the mitigation will include disassembling/reassembling my furnace to seal underneath.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a house in the hills of Los Angeles and we tested for radon. Turned out it was very high, and LA is one of the few places in California that has high radon. We got it mitigated, and it wasn't that expensive. I talked to neighbors and real estate agents, and no one wanted to know anything about it. I was shocked. Everyone is pulling the wool over their own eyes here.

> We got it mitigated, and it wasn't that expensive What's the process, usually, adding some special ventilation system to the house?

Drill a 6” hole through the concrete foundation and dig out about 15-20 gallons worth of material. Install a 3-4” PVC pipe into the hole (the end of the pipe should be a few inches below the bottom of the foundation) and seal the hole up with hydraulic cement. Continue the PVC pipe up out out of the house. There are lots of rules around distance of the outlet from windows and doors and how high above roof line. Inline install a radon fan. How big a fan you need depends on many factors like soil type, home dimensions, etc. The fan runs 24/7 creating a vacuum under the house.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> primarily to get rid of a microplastics emission source I wouldn't be surprised to learn that inhaled microplastics were causing an increase in lung cancers. We know they end up deep in the lungs.

Personally, I more suspect vehicles. We got a grip on particulate emissions from diesel engines, but brakes and tires still emit fine dust particles. The average one way commute is 30 minutes in the US, so you're breathing in pretty filthy air for an hour a day...

Hopefully not. I keep the windows up and recycle the air (which should be filtered on its way in anyway). I live a bit closer to road than I'd like considering the traffic levels though so even keeping windows open in the house could be an issue.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#85
post #3

Not being a scientist of any kind, I fully believe it is fossil fuel emissions, mainly from autos. When I was very young, where I lived, a city of 100000, I would say less than 50% of the people there drove plus most worked in the city they lived in. Now, almost every household has at least 2 autos and most drive at least 10+ (16km) miles to work. But , I also wonder if this is tied to the general increase in cancers…

Ohh it's definitely cars. In more ways than one. A lot of "poor" countries have life expectancies comparable to the US. The big difference is they don't have a culture of every single person needing to own a car that spray carcinogens all over the place. Obesity, which is its own massive wrecking ball, is also significantly lower in these "poor" countries. The arrogance of laughing at poor people riding bikes to work…

It's honestly such awakening experience to see videos or visit these "poor" low GDP, stagnant economy countries and see their streets are full of happy, healthy people out walking, talking with each other. Kids out playing on the street, old people dancing in the parks. And then see our rich cities where everyone sits in traffic scoffing McDonalds raging out at other people doing the same. Huffing in diesel exhaust and tire microplastics.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#86

The second leading cause of lung cancer is radon. My high schooler came home and said her science teacher said everyone should do a radon test. I scoffed, but humored her by getting a kit from Home Depot and sending it away to a lab. The results came back very high. So I purchased an electronic radon monitor and it showed almost the exact same results. Well, crap. I installed a radon mitigation system and now the num…

The difficult thing for me is that while I believe radon can cause lung cancer, I think products are often sold based on fear. “Second leading cause” doesn’t really mean anything in isolation, does it?

What slice of my mortality pie was radon before and after spending $5000? Could I spend $5000 to cut a bigger slice out of it in another way, like eating better or hiring a grizzly bear to make me exercise more often?

I think action is better than decision paralysis, but I wish I could make much more informed decisions.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#88

I used to live by a busy street in a semi-dense part of town. Cars would be going around 45mph. When I moved from that apartment after 4 years. I was shocked by the amount of black dust covering everything. from the walls to the shelves and floors. I think it was all tire pollution so switching to 100% electric won't mitigate. It was pretty shocking and I wondered how much i increased my risk for lung cancer or other…

I don't doubt a significant portion was tire and brake dust, but even gasoline and diesel can emit a significant amount of soot and unburned hydrocarbons.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a house in the hills of Los Angeles and we tested for radon. Turned out it was very high, and LA is one of the few places in California that has high radon. We got it mitigated, and it wasn't that expensive. I talked to neighbors and real estate agents, and no one wanted to know anything about it. I was shocked. Everyone is pulling the wool over their own eyes here.

> We got it mitigated, and it wasn't that expensive What's the process, usually, adding some special ventilation system to the house?

Yes. I went into detail in another message in this thread. I neglected to mention that our garage is a slab foundation unlike the rest of the house so it involved drilling a hole and putting in a ventilation pipe into it, as others have mentioned.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#90
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought an Airthings radon monitor because of that stat, and one thing that I have learned is that those mitigation systems do not necessarily work. I have a system that works, but initially, even though my house had a system, it did not reliably keep the radon levels below the federal action level. Barometric pressure, temperature, and HVAC all seem to have some bearing - tightening the house for air leaks actually…

> tightening the house for air leaks actually did a lot of good in keeping levels low Wait, really? Intuitively I would expect the opposite, that a draftier house is better for radon levels indoors

A better seal maintains the pressure in the house better.

Drafts form either from temperature differential and wind outside pushing in.

Radon coming up from the ground is still heavier than air, so it won't mix in very well if it can't displace anything.

It's not a perfect solution, as air movement from circulation will help it mix in, but a good envelope will help a mitigation system out quite a bit.

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