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EverQuest

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Re: EverQuest

#81

Post by tacocataco »

h2zizzle wrote: post #55
thegrim33 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also at the perfect moment in time where you couldn't just pull up the game's wiki on a second monitor and have fully detailed maps and quest details on hand. You actually had to learn things for yourself by exploration and trial and error. You had to learn things from other people by talking to them in game. In my mind back then, I was in awe of people that even had the knowledge of how to get across certain…

You have to make the world big and uncharted enough that it can't be picked over quickly. I have some hope that Light No Fire might pull it off. Probably an uncommon experience, but I felt something similar playing Final Fantasy XV. The semi-realistic scale and emptiness of the world map that people complained about actually contributed to the consistent feeling of being out in the wilderness, stumbling on dungeons a…

There sure isn't much information on Light No Fire online. Hello Games must be keeping the cards close to the chest with this one.

Re: EverQuest

#82

Post by andrepd »

thegrim33 wrote: post #22
mike1o1 wrote: post #2

I absolutely loved EverQuest and it’s still probably holds some of my fondest gaming memories. My favorite feeling about it is that it felt like a real world first, gameplay second. It had a real sense of danger and wonder that I think will be almost impossible to recreate. Going from Qeynos to Freeport, or crossing the ocean on a boat felt absolutely epic and dangerous. It was wonderful, but not something I would wa…

It was also at the perfect moment in time where you couldn't just pull up the game's wiki on a second monitor and have fully detailed maps and quest details on hand. You actually had to learn things for yourself by exploration and trial and error. You had to learn things from other people by talking to them in game. In my mind back then, I was in awe of people that even had the knowledge of how to get across certain…

Hit the nail on the head (note: you can even look at long-running MMOs like WoW or Runescape and compare how they were played in 2004 and how they are played now, to see this in action). The data-mining and hyperoptimisation and looking everything up on the wiki means the _exploration and wonder_ that did make the MMO experience so unique is gone. Even chatting is not done in-game, at the same location in the physical world, but just on a discord chat you alt-tab to...

At this point, even if a good MMO were to come out (incredibly, this has not happened for close on two decades), recreating that experience is entirely on the player. It's on the player to forgo looking things up, or to forgo using external tools to chat, find groups, trade items, calculate strategies, etc. But since players doing that will be at a disadvantage, that is unlikely to happen in an online game...

Re: EverQuest

#83

Post by andrepd »

rhines wrote: post #57
MBlinow wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made an effort in recent years to actively avoid researching wikis and guides on games as I play them. I've come to think that a lot of the joy in gaming is the discovery and unraveling the systems that make the game tick. Finding the optimal ways to level or complete some mission through exploration and experimentation is always so much more fulfilling than finding the first result the comes up in google where…

100% agreed with games being designed for online aids. Some of the quests in Oldschool Runescape make me wonder if I'd ever have completed them without guides - it's like they're designed to be a challenge for the whole community upon release, rather than for individual players.

2007 Quest Cape with no guides is a long-standing childhood dream of mine. One I think I will never complete, but still!

Re: EverQuest

#84

Post by shostack »

h2zizzle wrote: post #55
thegrim33 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also at the perfect moment in time where you couldn't just pull up the game's wiki on a second monitor and have fully detailed maps and quest details on hand. You actually had to learn things for yourself by exploration and trial and error. You had to learn things from other people by talking to them in game. In my mind back then, I was in awe of people that even had the knowledge of how to get across certain…

You have to make the world big and uncharted enough that it can't be picked over quickly. I have some hope that Light No Fire might pull it off. Probably an uncommon experience, but I felt something similar playing Final Fantasy XV. The semi-realistic scale and emptiness of the world map that people complained about actually contributed to the consistent feeling of being out in the wilderness, stumbling on dungeons a…

Unfortunately as an early NMS player with hundreds of hours, I have seen nothing that gives me hope that LNF will have the depth that is needed for the world to feel like that. Mile wide, inch deep.

What made EQ an experience was those areas were static and took real skill to uncover how to do things.

Re: EverQuest

#85

Post by to-too-two »

I was 9 when I first played EverQuest - I'm now 35. That game taught me how to type on a keyboard.

Probably the game that influenced my life the most. RIP Brad, and shout out to the team.

Re: EverQuest

#86

Post by andrepd »

CSMastermind wrote: post #53
jghn wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hated EQ for me the reason was it was not UO nor was it even trying to recreate the vibrancy & real world that UO's designers had gone for. *BUT* I also recognized that EQ represented a game that was much more aligned to what a normal gamer would want, one could already see that path being forged in UO as time went on. And then of course WoW came along and perfected the art. I still lament how UO played out. It qui…

UO had such a huge influence on me. It was amazing.

It's legitimately insane that perhaps the best MMO, or at least the one which came closer to fulfill the MMO's promise of a shared, persistent, virtual world, was also the first. How come in three decades of technological and creative development did nobody do it better?

Re: EverQuest

#87

Post by shmoe »

don_neufeld wrote: post #72

I was there. My first pay stub had Verant on it, I joined shortly before the SOE transition. One thing maybe not well known outside of the company was that the MMO subscription revenue enabled a hotbed of experimentation. There was an MMO RTS which never shipped, and several other takes on “can we make genre X an MMO?” that I can’t remember. And then SWG, obviously. EQ2 had all kinds of interesting people on it as a…

I had such amazing times in the SWG beta.. it's a shame it never found its footing. It's ambition did it in.

Thank you!

Re: EverQuest

#88

Post by dmbche »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #71
dmbche wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look at Noita!

Noita is the last thing that comment suggests he wants. Most of Noita's content can only be learned by consulting the wiki, which I assume is an intentional legacy of the designers' love of Nethack. And the world is the same every time.

I dont know it's the last thing he wants.

I feel like the same "most" of the content which lives on the wiki is very secondary to the gameloop and that the designers did a wonderful job at not letting the player optimize the fun out of the game.

The game teaches you nothing and is very cryptic, but the gameloop is simple (go down, don't die). You naturally learn how the sandbox interact (i'm on fire but I have a water flask, water clear up sludge) and the randomized (and shuffle) wands expose you to spell interactions.

You can easily spend multi hundred hours just learning through the sandbox and trying to break the game.

The cryptic stuff (34 orbs, impressing the gods, the messages) is also very cool and I think motivating to keep playing with the sandbox even after having "mastered" the mechanics of the game. (As in you never know what you could manage to find if you try to break the game)

I don't think people play noita with a guide on a second monitor.

Sorry if poorly worded, tired

Re: EverQuest

#90

Post by dgfitz »

MBlinow wrote: post #46
thegrim33 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also at the perfect moment in time where you couldn't just pull up the game's wiki on a second monitor and have fully detailed maps and quest details on hand. You actually had to learn things for yourself by exploration and trial and error. You had to learn things from other people by talking to them in game. In my mind back then, I was in awe of people that even had the knowledge of how to get across certain…

I've made an effort in recent years to actively avoid researching wikis and guides on games as I play them. I've come to think that a lot of the joy in gaming is the discovery and unraveling the systems that make the game tick. Finding the optimal ways to level or complete some mission through exploration and experimentation is always so much more fulfilling than finding the first result the comes up in google where…

I will always be in awe of the folks that figured out all of Elden ring without a guide. Some of those quests were just bananas.
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