Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

joincolossus.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–89 of 89 posts

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#81

Post by kaiwenwang »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #57
kaiwenwang wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like very good isn't enough as employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates, and if you're sort of in the middle then the so-so companies don't want you either because they think you'll leave. Something about the increased social stratification of our times, which also has to do with increased transportation and communication. Might also depend on your locale. Plumber in Germany might be b…

>employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates, This is just flatly false. Employers want candidates at all ability levels given a competitive price . You can be pretty bad at your job and still have a steady stream of work if you're cheap, for example. The Hacker News crowd loves to poop on these guys because we are almost by definition a quasi-professional platform, but we are far from the media…

Added you on LinkedIn if you'd like to chat about your experiences moving to Finland. Yes, I might've been too non-specific with my wording. My communication style tends to link disparate topics together, which seems too hyperbole when people read into the words themselves.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#82

Post by kaiwenwang »

danparsonson wrote: post #69
kaiwenwang wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried to be as accurate as I perceive it, and the descriptions of the environment are accurate to the locale of most of the United States. If the bar is that low, then the environment is sure to be like the first place I described.

"Most of the United States"? You're covering an awfully big area there - how much of it have you actually seen for yourself vs learned about second hand through news and social media? As for the skills bar, if you're intent on being hired by the likes of OpenAI then sure, you'll need to aim high, but for the majority of jobs, being reasonably good, friendly, and reliable will definitely be sufficient; the challenge i…

As an adult I lived in Georgia, South Carolina, Ohio for internships and visited the major cities: Seattle, SF, Chicago, NYC, Boston, DC, Dallas, Philly.

Most of the United States is suburbanized, and if you want to rent an apartment near the city it tends to be that gray laminate style I've described for $1500/mo with roommates.

Most of the people who managed to have a family in a major city area are doing well for themselves, prior to asset and rent inflation because they have accessible goods and knowledge to them.

I didn't even know what IKEA was until age 18.

Because the national system of laws and transportation forms a certain culture, Costco regardless of the location is the same. The STOP signs in the United States are all the same. The processing of foods all follow certain guidelines. There are certain stores existing up to the limits of the locale, and only certain producers because society has centralized so heavily. So I think my claim of generality is reasonable.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#83

Post by chr15m »

raddan wrote: post #73
chr15m wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring is not a zero sum game (growth of the company/economy through good hiring means more positions are created). I've hired software developers before and what I was looking for was somebody who commits code that works and is good quality. I don't care about their ranking on some imaginary programmer hierarchy. You probably don't want to work at a company where they do.

Not to mention that motivated humans are amazing learning machines. The supposed trend of replacing entry-level programmers with AI is pure insanity. Sure, code of indeterminate quality (let’s assume for a moment that it is good) will get written. But a company is its people, and you are shutting the door to new ideas. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen the neophyte, who was maybe considered a bit of a dope af…

Good point. Good hires have the potential to become even better.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#84

Post by richardatlarge »

egypturnash wrote: post #10

Is this a story about Kevin Kelly or is this an autobiography? It purports to be the former but it's largely about the author's work history. It sort of gestures vaguely at being an interview with Kevin but there's only about four paragraphs in the entire article that contain quotes from him in response to things the author asked, and most of these are about his collection of knick-knacks. I kept on waiting for a ser…

Agreed, it gives the impression he had nothing to say. Probably a wrong impression. Shining a light too brightly is often the same as turning off the lights

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#85

Post by richardatlarge »

As a potter, when I open my gas fired kiln, I hope for one piece I really love. That’s enough. I think success is in the moment of experience. Maybe an effective passage in one of my novels.

Just a diet of the small things. Above and beyond that, we lose control over what’s good, great, bad, or important. We don’t see the true consequences of most of what we do.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#86

Post by richardatlarge »

yeeetz wrote: post #18
blendo wrote: post #16

He's quite religious: https://www.christianitytoday.com/2011/07/geektheologian/

Many successful American tech founders and entrepreneurs have strong religious or spiritual beliefs — I believe it's part of the unique competitive advantage and edge in this industry

Or maybe that’s what they cling to until their money can buy them everlasting life.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#87

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

kaiwenwang wrote: post #81
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>employers want the best candidates but not the average candidates, This is just flatly false. Employers want candidates at all ability levels given a competitive price . You can be pretty bad at your job and still have a steady stream of work if you're cheap, for example. The Hacker News crowd loves to poop on these guys because we are almost by definition a quasi-professional platform, but we are far from the media…

Added you on LinkedIn if you'd like to chat about your experiences moving to Finland. Yes, I might've been too non-specific with my wording. My communication style tends to link disparate topics together, which seems too hyperbole when people read into the words themselves.

I'm always happy to talk about it.

For the benefit of future readers with less context, you can model my move to Finland and Europe more generally to a first approximation as a trade. I gave up somewhere in the ballpark of $500,000 in expected post-tax income over the first ~5 years of my career by moving away from the US right after graduating from college. In exchange I married the love of my life a few years earlier than I would have otherwise, and we got our little family started a few years earlier too.

To me this was and is a fantastic way to spend $500,000. To most other people their heads would explode merely by realizing such a trade could be on the table, and so they never get serious enough about either money or love to face it head on.

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#88

Post by gkanai »

zebriez wrote: post #5
pclowes wrote: post #4

This was a breath of fresh air. The tech sector has grown and changed so much. It has gotten much more "professional" which is arguably good but it this in turn promotes a fair amount of "corporate stooge" behavior. I am guilty here for sure, it is really easy to focus on levels, promo packets, OKRs, especially as you age and responsibility grows and forget what make this industry amazing in the first place. Good rem…

Brie, author of the profile here. Funny you mention Art of Doing Science and Engineering. There was a footnote to You and Your Research in an early draft but it hit the cutting room floor in edits. (Also, I helped get Stripe Press off the ground–including tracking down rights to Art of Doing Science and Engineering–so it warms my heart to hear that's how you first came to the essay/speech).

Related to Kevin Kelly, if you want to hear from Kelly's collaborator in the walks, Craig Mod was recently interviewed by Tim Ferriss (episode #803).

Re: Flounder Mode – Kevin Kelly on a different way to do great work

#89

Post by CHUCKEESH »

raddan wrote: post #72
alexslobodnik wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The binary perspective gives an excuse to give up. The reasonable perspective does not. It demonstrates that though agency is limited it does exist. Our life outcomes are connected to our actions. For many their circumstances make this an unpleasant thought, thus binary thinking protect their self-image. For some that's all they have left.

I too am baffled by the prevailing sense of doom that many young people have. They certainly get a lot of messages about how hard things are, and of course, one’s circumstances have a big effect on one’s future. I am often asked in my job as a professor: “if I fail this test am I doomed forever?” which strikes me as so miscalibrated with reality that I struggle to respond. Humanity’s initial circumstances, by modern…

[dead]
Post reply on HN