The $25k car is going extinct? • Hacker News Board

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#81

Post by 999900000999 » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:50 AM UTC

caleblloyd wrote: post #52

999900000999 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to justify your personal situation to me. If you feel like buying a 80k truck, that's cool. The issue with America is the vast majority of truck buyers really can't afford an 80k truck. This isn't the best source, but it says here the average truck buyer is only making 82k or so. https://www.myautoconcepts.com/blogdetails?id=4049 From experience talking to friends and sales people plenty of folks with…

Another (possibly bigger) reason cars are cheaper in China is because their government subsidizes the heck out of BYD and the likes. It would be like if Tesla didn’t have to pay anything to build their factories.

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wha...

We subsidize our auto industry too.

Imagine if we let in the Chinese EVs stacked with the tax credit, you could get a car for 5000$ or less.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#82

Post by tzs » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:56 AM UTC

iancmceachern wrote: post #36

999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

We drive an F250, and live in San Francisco. We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year). To get around locally we ride our bikes mostly here in the city. We do use it for our small business (essential) and also to to a large RV trailer which we use to live in 2-4 months a year visiting loved ones and just decompressing. The things people don't usually talk about is the total cost of ownership. One can buy a new…

> We hardly put any miles on it (maybe 15k a year)

That's a little more than the average American drives per year.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#83

Post by hedora » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:56 AM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #60

eitally wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, but I think there's another factor, too. (And I drive a 2017 F150) I would love to sell my truck and get something smaller. But I just got a repair estimate of almost $2500 to replace the from facing camera in my wife's Odyssey, and the Bluetooth stack in my truck has never really worked properly for phone calls. With cars becoming increasingly. "Software defined vehicles" I don't feel comfortable p…

2016 F-150 here…just keep it. At this point I’m going to run mine into the ground. No way I would spend whatever Ford is asking for nowadays for a new one.

I’ve got a used lightning, with a 1500 ram and a 1500 gmc before that. The Ford is by far the best truck we’ve owned.

In fact, the other two were so unreliable and underpowered that I’ll never buy a GM or Stellantis (chrysler/dodge/ram/fiat) product again.

Anyway, definitely hold onto the 2016/17 Fords vs switching brands. I’ve driven lower trim line Fords slightly older than that, and they were also way ahead of the newer GM and Ram trucks that we had.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#84

Post by SJC_Hacker » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:57 AM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #54

snovymgodym wrote: post #7

It's pretty simple (in the US, can't speak for elsewhere). There are 2 big factors at play: 1. Margins. Manufacturers make huge margins on expensive vehicles and very slim margins on cheap vehicles. The numbers differ, but I think even in the lead up to the 2008 crisis automakers had to sell 5-10 "econobox" cars to make the profit they made on one luxury car, SUV, or truck. 2. Normalization of debt. For many American…

I think the cost of a car is a huge drag on the upward mobility on the lower income earners in the U.S.

Because they are buying new and financing it

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#85

Post by SJC_Hacker » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:58 AM UTC

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #73

msgodel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>having a monthly car payment in perpetuity is considered acceptable. I think that really depends on what part of America. At least where I grew up around a bunch of middle class conservatives listening to eg Dave Ramsey (who has other problems IMO) most people think of you as reckless/irresponsible for doing that sort of thing.

I grew up around a bunch of middle class conservatives in the Southern USA and almost all of them were into debt on house, car, often even taking loans to pay for kids private school. And you'd never know until the family divorced and their lifestyle drastically decreases. Dave Ramsey has to be relatively new because debt was extremely extremely common among conservatives in the US (no idea about liberals didn't live…

Houses are debt, but are generally and appreciating asset

Cars are a depreciating asset. It usually does not make sense to go into debt to get one

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#86

Post by maxglute » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 1:59 AM UTC

Problem is a 40k car interior feels worse than a 15k Chinese car. The Koreans are trying, but like Samsung, not too hard.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#87

Post by standardUser » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 2:01 AM UTC

Americans like to upgrade their cars, not unlike their cell phones, and they often have a monthly car payment (or two) that never permanently goes away.

That makes some sense to me, but if the goal is to always have a nice car, doesn't it makes much more sense to lease? The monthly payments will be a few hundred bucks less and you can upgrade every 2-3 years. And from what I understand, leasing agents like to give incentives after your first lease to keep you in the cycle.

Personally, if I were aiming for the most economical option, I'd lease a Nissan Leaf for ~$300/mo.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#88

Post by arwhatever » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 2:01 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #38

One fact not mentioned in the article - Americans now owe $1.64 trillion in auto loans, and cars make up 9% of all consumer debt in the country. In fact we now owe more on cars than student loans. The average loan term is rising - almost 6 years now. 60-day delinquency on auto loans is at 6.6%, the highest ever recorded, and is as high as 9% in some states. So while car prices keep going up, people also keep going de…

Occasionally see pizza delivery signs atop super duty trucks where I live.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#89

Post by brandall10 » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 2:03 AM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #53

The sweet spot has always been a 1 year old used car with low miles. There’s lots of those for less than or about $25k. Honda, Toyota, and Mazda have models in those ranges that will easily last a decade.

Even better, a 3 year old used car with low miles.

In 2016 I picked up a 2013 320i Sport w/ 22k miles on the clock for $18.5k. The sticker on the car was just over $36k. I did have to fly to a relatively remote town (Ogden Utah) and drive it home to San Diego, so that was an extra $320 for the plane ticket/shuttle/gas and 14 hours out of a saturday.

It was almost out of warranty, so pre-purchase I paid a local shop $110 to do a similar inspection to what BMW does for CPO and it only needed brake pads. Aside from the brake pads and scheduled maintenance, eventually replaced the tires, so about $2000 in maintenance over that period. Sold it for $14.5k w/ 50k on the clock 6 years later.

Could have held onto it much longer but was eager to do the nomad thing as covid was clearing up.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#90

Post by Gigachad » Mon, Jun 30, 2025, 2:12 AM UTC

clickety_clack wrote: post #12

999900000999 wrote: post #8

We don't want affordable Chinese EVs. That's the answer here. They can build cars better, cheaper, faster than we can. Instead Ford wants to sell a 80k SUPER F-250 BIG MANN TRUCK. All for what, you to drive 10 minutes to Walmart, buy groceries and drive back. The best car is the one you don't own. No payments, insurance, parking tickets. Unfortunately most American cities are centered around driving. So much money ,…

I make pretty good tech money and I can’t imagine spending that much on a car. It would be cheaper to uber everywhere I went.

I've done the math a few times and it just makes no sense to own a car for me. Public transport is the fastest way to get to work, and for everything else I can uber every time PT isn't the best option and still come out cheaper than buying the most budget new car.