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Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

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Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#81

Post by clarky07 »

michaelt wrote: post #79
jfb wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not yet in the cards. Realistically, you need to be talking about 2.5 hours as the effective range, as almost nowhere will have the full speed charging setup.

I was thinking someone who drove 5 hours to visit family would be staying over night and could do an over night charge. I'll admit this may not always be the case. I certainly agree that serious range and uptake will need serious charging and generation infrastructure.

Even overnight isn't enough though. It's 30 hours to charge in a normal outlet, and you then you have to take over their garage.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#82

Post by pyoung »

clarky07 wrote: post #32
jarito wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with that. Renting a car for a weekend drive is crazy expensive and varies widely depending on location, time of year, etc. Asking people to pay an unpredictable several hundred dollars for the rental, then pay for gas, several times a year, is not going to work. I'd focus on 2+ car households. I would love to have an electric that doesn't suck and another car for the wife, traveling, hauling kids, etc. The…

Yeah you can maybe make it work for a 2 car household getting 1 electric. I agree that renting is not even close to a reasonable option.

I am not sure I agree with that. If you think about it, the gas costs for your trip are a wash, because you would be spending that money either way. However, with the amount of money that you saved on fuel with an electric (a few thousand dollars a year, roughly), that could offset the cost of renting a car for your long weekend trip (a few hundred dollars).

I do agree with you that the Tesla is not a mass market vehicle yet. But not because of the 450-mile trip issue. It is because most people/families should not (or cannot) be buying a $50,000 car, even if it means saving a few thousand dollars a year in fuel costs. It would take too long (if ever) to break even on the increased cost. Once EV's get down to more competitive prices, then it starts making more sense. However, if you have the cash, and you like the idea of the Tesla, then yes you should go for it, because without early adopters, Tesla could end up folding.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#83

Post by guimarin »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #76
rdl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the next big innovation after EV (+ diesel for long haul, and maybe diesel/hybrid), will be self-driving cars. If you keep cars for 10 years, it's reasonable that a car bought today could be your last without a self-driving mode, even if that self driving mode only covers certain driving regimes (auto-park, which the Japanese prius did a few years ago; highway close-follow road-train mode, auto-braking (which…

I think your 10 year estimate is optimistic, but it is certainly coming to the point where the cars drive themselves. One of the interesting things about being driven, as opposed to driving, is that passengers rarely suffer from 'road rage.' That is a big win. Perhaps more interesting will be the transition time, that point where half the cars are self driving and half are manually driven. Will manual drivers become…

I actually expect major pushback to automated cars for just this reason. and suspect that ultimately we will have to legislate that all cars be automated.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#84

Post by pyoung »

mcot2 wrote: post #52
clarky07 wrote: post #22

While this is impressive, it still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the problem. It can only be used for commuting and local trips. I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. If you can improve the infrastructure with the charging stations it helps, but still doesn't work. I might be willing to stop for 30 minutes once, but not twice. I can eat a meal while it charges the first time, but as…

+1 for this. The cars which combine electric and gas make a lot more sense until we get to at least 5k range with electric. I'm not joking about that either... I routinely go over 5k miles on trips where plugging in for 5 hours would be problematic.

uhhh, 5k is over 3 straight days of driving at highway speeds. It is longer than the distance between SF and NY. I highly doubt that EV's need to be optimized for these distances, as no one in their right mind would routinely go on trips of these lengths.

Hats off to you if you can put up with that much time in a car, but personally I would take a plane.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#85

Post by abjr »

kennethcwilbur wrote: post #46

I've been driving a tesla roadster for about a year. It's my daily commuter. I plug the car into a regular 110V outlet. I typically get 30-50 miles of charge overnight, depending on what time I get home and when I leave. My commute is only 10 miles each way so it's 100% full most mornings when I get in. I've verified the car can do 240 miles between cities but you have to set the cruise to 60 mph or below. I keep a g…

As if most of us can afford one. When you take in to account the sticker price of these EVs, I'd rather keep my Civic and pay for gas.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#86

Post by drzaiusapelord »

rdl wrote: post #9
timmyd wrote: post #3

Elon Musk is without doubt one the best entrepreneurs around - far less celebrated than many of the other 'uber' entrepreneurs around but with such ridiculously awesome companies. 268 Miles (or slightly less according to the article) is just amazing - less C02, less environmental impact wrapped in a high performance car which - will no doubt - have some detractors as a first iteration against well establish models (c…

Who (in the past 20-30 years) is celebrated more than Elon Musk is today? Other than Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. Maybe tied with Jeff Bezos? I don't think "many".

If I asked my wife today, I'm certain she's knows Jobs and Gates, maybe Bezos (and that's a big maybe) but no way would she know who Musk is. Lets not mistake our echo chamber for the world.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#87

Post by simba-hiiipower »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #76
rdl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the next big innovation after EV (+ diesel for long haul, and maybe diesel/hybrid), will be self-driving cars. If you keep cars for 10 years, it's reasonable that a car bought today could be your last without a self-driving mode, even if that self driving mode only covers certain driving regimes (auto-park, which the Japanese prius did a few years ago; highway close-follow road-train mode, auto-braking (which…

I think your 10 year estimate is optimistic, but it is certainly coming to the point where the cars drive themselves. One of the interesting things about being driven, as opposed to driving, is that passengers rarely suffer from 'road rage.' That is a big win. Perhaps more interesting will be the transition time, that point where half the cars are self driving and half are manually driven. Will manual drivers become…

"Perhaps more interesting will be the transition time, that point where half the cars are self driving and half are manually driven. Will manual drivers become more aggressive because they "know" the robo-cars will get out of their way?"

that would be quite interesting to see. i could certainly see myself becoming more aggressive if i knew others around me would adjust without incident; though that would depend on if self-driving cars are clearly labeled as such (i.e. with special plates)

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#88

Post by kingnothing »

abjr wrote: post #85
kennethcwilbur wrote: post #46

I've been driving a tesla roadster for about a year. It's my daily commuter. I plug the car into a regular 110V outlet. I typically get 30-50 miles of charge overnight, depending on what time I get home and when I leave. My commute is only 10 miles each way so it's 100% full most mornings when I get in. I've verified the car can do 240 miles between cities but you have to set the cruise to 60 mph or below. I keep a g…

As if most of us can afford one. When you take in to account the sticker price of these EVs, I'd rather keep my Civic and pay for gas.

You need to factor in that you don't have to pay for gas or most regular maintenance, and there are significantly fewer parts that will break over the lifetime of the vehicle. You also aren't the target demographic for the Model S -- it's aimed at the luxury and sports car markets.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#89

Post by ghostfish »

kennethcwilbur wrote: post #48
kennethcwilbur wrote: post #46

I've been driving a tesla roadster for about a year. It's my daily commuter. I plug the car into a regular 110V outlet. I typically get 30-50 miles of charge overnight, depending on what time I get home and when I leave. My commute is only 10 miles each way so it's 100% full most mornings when I get in. I've verified the car can do 240 miles between cities but you have to set the cruise to 60 mph or below. I keep a g…

I forgot to mention what is maybe the best part. Surprised the article doesn't talk about this. When you drive an EV, acceleration is instant. Like, at the same time your foot goes down, your shoulders get thrown back. Gas cars often take 0.5-2 seconds to get response from the engine, depending on the car & current conditions at the time you accelerate. You get used to the acceleration in the Tesla after a while. But…

I think you're attributing to throttle lag something that is primarily attributable to torque (which isn't to say there isn't throttle response lag, just it's a minor component imo). Diesels are similar to EVs in the sense that you don't need to let the engine rev up or downshift to get that "throw you back" feel quickly. Depends on the car, obviously.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#90

Post by kingnothing »

clarky07 wrote: post #42
acgourley wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say, "the problem" when you should say "my problem." Personally I just drive around the SF bay area. Maybe 120 miles on my longest driving day. For the one-two times a year I go farther, I suppose I need to rent a car, take transit. or have someone else drive. That seems like a reasonable price to pay to have the coolest car on the planet for a few years.

If you have a spare 100k "to be cool" then go for it. If I had that much money to throw around I'd get one as well. It's an awesome car. That doesn't however just make it "my problem." There aren't very many people buying any of these cars, so I assume it's a problem for more than just me. The point I'm trying to make, is that if I'm spending 50-100k on a car, I want it to solve "the driving problem." i.e. if I need…

The base price is $50,000 after tax incentives.
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