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Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

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Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#81

Post by floatrock »

amoshebb wrote: post #2

I love solar, but this "those who can afford microgrids can shield themselves from blackouts" paired with net metering where "the wealthy get paid a premium for excess generation and can buy expensive high-demand power back at a discount" probably aren't steps on the path to improved grid resiliency for any definition other than this weird "no island-wide outages" definition.

What's the alternative? Equity is important, sure, but to swing all the way towards "only a centralized grid should be allowed in order to make sure all have the same level access" is a head-in-the-sands approach that ignores realities such as how the centralized grid out there has metastasized into a non-functional bureaucratic blame-shifting machine (at least measured by the increasing frequency of outages). A centralized grid also never actually delivers true equitable access.

One alternative is decentralization, and the article talks about that:

> The town’s local environmental nonprofit Casa Pueblo teamed up with researchers from the U.S. Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Oak Ridge, Tenn., to develop a way to connect multiple microgrids to exchange power with one another, all without having to be hooked up to Puerto Rico’s grid. The strategy, called grid orchestration, ensures that if power is knocked out on one of the installations, the others aren’t compromised.

Is it the wealthy that are doing that? Maybe? Probably? But isn't that how any R&D technology investment starts?

It's also involving a government-funded lab to re-envision how these systems could work to achieve resiliency through coordinated decentralization. And if there's any truth to trickle-down economics, it would have to be in something that allows for a decentralized approach accessible to many, not a centralized approach that only rewards r > g accumulation. Sounds like a good use of government research funding to me.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#82

Post by EcommerceFlow »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #79
EcommerceFlow wrote: post #71

My hope for America is once Optimus robots are up and running, have 1-2 legions worth work 24/7 setting up a huge farm in Arizona, then creating an energy transition line to the east coast. It sounds crazy, but given the rate of advancements in robots and the fact that solar panels are already mass manufactured, why isn’t this feasible in 2 years?

Are solar panels still being produced in the U.S.? I thought we strangled that golden goose.

Remove the Chinese Tariffs on them, then just import massive amounts.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#83

Post by sanex »

WillAdams wrote: post #77

Does anyone have a good link/step-by-step for doing some sort of home solar system where: - it's sufficiently small-scale that no building permit is required - it looks nice enough that neighbors won't complain - the wiring is essentially plug-and-play The best approach I've been able to come up with is to purchase a medium size battery pack such as is used for glamping (glamour camping), plug it into the wall and co…

I'm interested in doing something like this as well. Build a pergola with a solar roof instead of just a metal one from Costco. I've seen a few videos online doing a similar sized system with like a Jackert or Anker Solix. Realistically with 2-3 harbor freight panels they're only enough to power like your home office. A fridge will burn through the battery pretty fast. I do believe you can have them do input and output straight into your wall outlet and you don't have to plug right the appliances into the battery/inverter.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#84

Post by miningape »

supplied_demand wrote: post #73
miningape wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is definitely not caused by socialism Currently, in western countries, socialist policies to import the 3rd world and open borders are directly responsible for the lowering social trust. > “immigrant rights are workers rights” is not mere rhetoric, and that the defense of migrants and refugees – the vast majority of whom are poor workers – is pivotal to the struggle of the entire global working class regardle…

== Currently, in western countries, socialist policies to import the 3rd world and open borders are directly responsible for the lowering social trust.== I don’t know of any western country with an “open borders” policy, can you provide one? Is there a part of the US’s 250 year history where we weren’t bringing in immigrants from poorer countries to provide cheap labor?

For very specific examples you can look towards the EU's decades long stance on immigration which resulted in the refugee crisis since (and before) 2015, as well as countless integration and immigration issues (cf Sweden, France, Italy, etc.).

The socialist and left wing coalition have consistently voted against measures to improve border security and tighten the restrictions for people wanting to enter [1]. As people have become increasingly frustrated with these policies they've increasingly voted in right wing and conservative parties (in comparison to the ruling parties) [2].

We can also look towards the UK where socialist politics have been a mainstay since the 90s, to the point where now the Prime Minister (Kier Starmer, Labour) is a self-proclaimed socialist [3]. This is of course directly tied to the waves of mass migration under Tony Blair (Labour) which also resulted in the Socialist Party splitting from Labour because he wasn't "radical enough" [4].

[1] https://theconversation.com/what-are-the-eus-new-migration-r...

[2] https://www.brookings.edu/articles/understanding-europes-tur...

[3] https://www.vice.com/en/article/keir-starmer-i-still-see-mys...

[4] https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/94799/27-04-2022/...

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#85

Post by megaman821 »

sanex wrote: post #83
WillAdams wrote: post #77

Does anyone have a good link/step-by-step for doing some sort of home solar system where: - it's sufficiently small-scale that no building permit is required - it looks nice enough that neighbors won't complain - the wiring is essentially plug-and-play The best approach I've been able to come up with is to purchase a medium size battery pack such as is used for glamping (glamour camping), plug it into the wall and co…

I'm interested in doing something like this as well. Build a pergola with a solar roof instead of just a metal one from Costco. I've seen a few videos online doing a similar sized system with like a Jackert or Anker Solix. Realistically with 2-3 harbor freight panels they're only enough to power like your home office. A fridge will burn through the battery pretty fast. I do believe you can have them do input and outp…

I agree, a solar pergula would be good and hardly noticeable.

A fidge is only going to use 1.5-2kWh per day. A medium sized pergola would give you more power than that. Since you aren't opening and closing the fridge in the middle of the night, a 1 kWh battery would keep it running all day on normal days.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#86

Post by brk »

WillAdams wrote: post #77

Does anyone have a good link/step-by-step for doing some sort of home solar system where: - it's sufficiently small-scale that no building permit is required - it looks nice enough that neighbors won't complain - the wiring is essentially plug-and-play The best approach I've been able to come up with is to purchase a medium size battery pack such as is used for glamping (glamour camping), plug it into the wall and co…

There is a ton of DIY solar info online, but it is very much regionally dependent. Both for permits and system design.

Here in Florida, I can get high output from an average panel, but there are a lot of permit issues (and rightly so, a poorly installed panel can become a severe hazard in a hurricane).

Where I lived in Michigan, there weren't many permitting or zoning issues, but I'd need 3-4x the number of panels to get usable output in the winter time.

Most truly small scale solar systems don't provide enough output/value to be worth the effort, unless you're living a very low-power lifestyle.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#87

Post by [deleted] »

amoshebb wrote: post #2

I love solar, but this "those who can afford microgrids can shield themselves from blackouts" paired with net metering where "the wealthy get paid a premium for excess generation and can buy expensive high-demand power back at a discount" probably aren't steps on the path to improved grid resiliency for any definition other than this weird "no island-wide outages" definition.

[deleted]

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#88

Post by throw83838484 »

miningape wrote: post #44
chilldsgn wrote: post #27

I don't know much about electrical grids, but I'm wondering if something like this concept could help South Africa with its endlessly struggling electrical grid problems. My city constantly has power outages and the majority of people cannot afford installing solar into their homes.

Eskom is already trying to take people to court over "non-compliant" solar panel installations [1]. I wouldn't hold my breath. Like most things in ANC South Africa this is a political issue where Eskom wants to get their cut for providing a non-existent service - and then funnel that money back to their friends and family for their non-existent services. [1] https://www.ecr.co.za/shows/stacey-jsbu/eskom-cracks-down-n…

More likely it is local goverment. Theymake a profit on reselling cheap energy provided by Eskom.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#90

Post by Attrecomet »

amai wrote: post #61

They should buy a nuclear power plant instead. Only nuclear power plants can prevent blackouts.

I have to wonder how you envision a small community building nucular when the state has already failed them. That's the real neat thing, that cooperations smaller than the entire territory of Puerto Rico can take action and help themselves, and even take away pressure from the rest of the grid doing it!

> Only nuclear power plants can prevent blackouts. That sentence is so maximal that it is trivially maximally wrong. Clearly, other tech can do that too. Like, blindingly obviously.

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