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Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

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Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#81

Post by MrArthegor »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #19
MrArthegor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly the belief of the developers don’t matter at the end of the day. The quality of code is the only thing who matters. And I don’t imply the quality of code is good or not, I have no idea.

Projects of this size cannot be a one man show. So the ability of collaborators to cooperate matters greatly.

Having a controversial reputation in leader is not always a bad thing, look at Theo De Raadt or Linus Totvald. It’s seem to have already attracted contributors, but let’s see how all of this goes in the next’s months.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#82

Post by user982 »

Lammy wrote: post #54
Lariscus wrote: post #36

[flagged]

> Xorg proper is now reverting a lot of their changes They're returning to a previous state which they believe possessed positive characteristics absent from contemporary? Somebody should come up with a word for that.

They're repairing damage. What word did you have in mind?

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#84

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

vincnetas wrote: post #22
MrArthegor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly the belief of the developers don’t matter at the end of the day. The quality of code is the only thing who matters. And I don’t imply the quality of code is good or not, I have no idea.

From authors commits to x11 and discussions about that, looks like code was not great. source comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44200000

And then I recall that experiment in which an LLM trained to spew out garbage insecure code started to behave like a garbage insecure edgelord personality too.

Guess "you can't have one without the other".

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#85

Post by shmerl »

devmor wrote: post #4
shmerl wrote: post #3

> What I don't like is ANY, I repeat ANY software solution that champions mediocrity. Then it should be proven that proposed alternative to Wayland is not mediocre or worse in issues Wayland is solving. Overall the post looks very shortsighted in looking at these issues from very narrow perspective, seemingly not realizing problems that need solving are much wider and not limited to one use case. Wayland surely is no…

> very narrow perspective, seemingly not realizing problems are much wider and not limited to one use case Ironically, this is the complaint many of us have about the development of Wayland.

I'd say it's the result of the use cases being so broad, that some get more focus than others. There were obviously pain points that only gradually got better. But it doesn't mean Wayland isn't suitable for addressing those scopes. Someone has to do the work though rather than complain.

In the past there were some problems with protocols not being accepted fast enough, those issues were more organizational than technical. But that seems to have been finally resolved not so long ago and a bunch of really useful protocols were accepted recently.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#86

Post by MrArthegor »

vincnetas wrote: post #22
MrArthegor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly the belief of the developers don’t matter at the end of the day. The quality of code is the only thing who matters. And I don’t imply the quality of code is good or not, I have no idea.

From authors commits to x11 and discussions about that, looks like code was not great. source comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44200000

It’s more a criticism of breaking certain things, which is inevitable when your try to refactor something. The matter is in the end if the behavior remain the same when you finish.

But it’s just a supposition at this stage, let’s see on the next’s month if it a complete mess or if it’s the XFree86 to Xorg transition

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#87

Post by JdeBP »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #69
TkTech wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been here for 13 years and I've never seen so many flagged throw-away accounts as I have in the series of threads discussing this fork. I was blissfully unaware of this niche corner of the conspiracy hive mind. The README, their anti-vax rants, the "Make X great again!", the way they write... I'm getting Terry A. Davis (RIP) déjà vu.

In the Laundry Files by Charles Stross, doing too much computations in your head may give you a form of brain damage by inviting extra-dimensional feeders to feast on your central nervous system. I feel like while the details may differ, as far as the big picture is concerned, he is not wrong.

Funnily enough, it was M. Stross who put me onto the fuss about the X11Libre's project's politics, and the GitHub issue over its README, just under a week ago. M. Stross had some rather strong words to say on the subject.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#88

Post by c-hendricks »

lelanthran wrote: post #40
GuestFAUniverse wrote: post #26

If you don't bother about any app being able to spoof on your pressed keys: go, use Xorg. But why stop there, and cope with a multi-user environment? Just boot into single user mode and "chmod a+rwx / -R". A lot of other /problems/ solved too. /S

> If you don't bother about any app being able to spoof on your pressed keys: go, use Xorg. The correct response to "All applications can spoof keypresses or act as a keylogger" is "Okay, force user to grant permission before an application does this". The Wayland response is "No application should be allowed to do this". Whether you like it or not, sometimes users actually want functionality that you deem is insecur…

How would that experience work on X? Wouldn't any app that accepts keyboard input throw up your suggested permission granting interface? That's pretty much all apps.

Also it's not like global hotkeys don't exist in Wayland.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#89

Post by SSLy »

JdeBP wrote: post #87
WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Laundry Files by Charles Stross, doing too much computations in your head may give you a form of brain damage by inviting extra-dimensional feeders to feast on your central nervous system. I feel like while the details may differ, as far as the big picture is concerned, he is not wrong.

Funnily enough, it was M. Stross who put me onto the fuss about the X11Libre's project's politics, and the GitHub issue over its README, just under a week ago. M. Stross had some rather strong words to say on the subject.

mind sparing a link to the words?

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#90

Post by msgodel »

I love the idea of coming up with something simpler than Xorg or even X11.

Unfortunately Wayland devs seem to have become user hostile in a way similar to the systemd devs (your use case being incompatible or unsuported is your problem, shut up and let us rearrange the OS etc) on top of the software just not being very good. Basic things like running video terminal emulators just doesn't work as well as it does on X (comparing Xterm on X to whatever on Sway always seemed to have much higher latency on my hardware, even moving the window around seems to lag a frame or two behind where it should be.)

At this point wayland itself has gotten pretty old, doesn't support what most desktop Linux users need day to day (at least enough to replace X) and is so unpleasant to deal with I don't think I'll be trying it again. It's a shame, the bar isn't that high. Then again maybe X11 is the oldest still in use graphics API for a reason.

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