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Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

blog.miguelgrinberg.com

81–90 of 464 posts

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#81
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to spend a little over $1k to ramp up your skills with AI-aided coding. It's dirt cheap in the grand scheme of things.

How are those without that kind of scratch supposed to keep up with those that do?

If you lack "that kind of scratch", you are at the learning stage for software development, not the keeping up stage. Either that or horribly underpaid.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#82

What really baffles me is the claims from: Anthropic: 80% of the code is generated by AI OpenAI: 70-80% Google/Microsoft: 30%

This does not contradict the article - it may be true, and yet not significantly more productive, because of the increased review burden.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#83
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to spend a little over $1k to ramp up your skills with AI-aided coding. It's dirt cheap in the grand scheme of things.

How are those without that kind of scratch supposed to keep up with those that do?

Use free tiers?

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#84
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to spend a little over $1k to ramp up your skills with AI-aided coding. It's dirt cheap in the grand scheme of things.

do I get a refund if I spend a grand and I'm still not convinced? at some point I'm going to start lying to myself to justify the cost and I don't know how much y'all earn but $1k is getting close

No one is forcing you to improve. If you don’t want to invest in yourself that is fine, you’ll just be left behind.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#85
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You might prefer manual coding, but you might just be bad at AI coding and you might prefer it if you improved at it. ok but how much am I supposed to spend before I supposedly just "get good"? Because based on the free trials and the pocket change I've spent, I don't consider the ROI worth it.

You're going to spend a little over $1k to ramp up your skills with AI-aided coding. It's dirt cheap in the grand scheme of things.

Not even close. I'm still under $100, creating full apps. Stick to reasonable models and you can achieve and learn a lot. You don't need latest and greatest in max mode (or whatever the new one calls it) for majority of the tasks. You can have to throw the whole project at the service every time either.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#86
So far as I can tell, generative AI coding tools make the easy part of the job go faster, without helping with the hard part of the job - in fact, possibly making it harder. Coding just doesn't take that much time, and I don't need help doing it. You could make my coding output 100x faster without materially changing my overall productivity, so I simply don't bother to optimize there.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#87

> It takes me at least the same amount of time to review code not written by me than it would take me to write the code myself, if not more. As someone who uses Claude Code heavily, this is spot on. LLMs are great, but I find the more I cede control to them, the longer it takes to actually ship the code. I’ve found that the main benefit for me so far is the reduction of RSI symptoms, whereas the actual time savings a…

I always use Claude Code to debug issues, there’s no point in trying to do this yourself when AI can fix it in minutes (easy to verify if you write tests first) o3 with new search can do things in 5 mins that will take me at least 30 mins if I’m very efficient. Say what you want but the time savings is real.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#88
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's important to realize that AI coding is itself a skill that you can develop. It's not just , pick the best tool and let it go. Managing prompts and managing context has a much higher skill ceiling than many people realize No, it's not. It's something you can pick in a few minutes (or an hour if you're using more advanced tooling, mostly spending it setting things up). But it's not like GDB or using UNIX as…

I do not agree it is something you can pick up in an hour. You have to learn what AI is good at, how different models code, how to prompt to get the results you want. If anything, prompting well is akin to learning a new programming language. What words do you use to explain what you want to achieve? How do you reference files/sections so you don't waste context on meaningless things? I've been using AI tools to code…

I am also interested in how much of these skills are at the mercy of OpenAI ? Like IIRC 1 or 2 years ago there was an uproar of AI "artists" saying that their art is ruined because of model changes ( or maybe the system prompt changed ).

>I do not agree it is something you can pick up in an hour.

But it's also interesting that the industry is selling the opposite ( with AI anyone can code / write / draw / make music ).

>You have to learn what AI is good at.

More often than not I find it you need to learn what the AI is bad at, and this is not a fun experience.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's important to realize that AI coding is itself a skill that you can develop. It's not just , pick the best tool and let it go. Managing prompts and managing context has a much higher skill ceiling than many people realize No, it's not. It's something you can pick in a few minutes (or an hour if you're using more advanced tooling, mostly spending it setting things up). But it's not like GDB or using UNIX as…

> It's something you can pick in a few minutes You can start in a few minutes, sure. (Also you can start using gdb in minutes) But GP is talking about the ceiling. Do you know which models work better for what kind of task? Do you know what format is better for extra files? Do you know when it's beneficial to restart / compress context? Are you using single prompts or multi stage planning trees? How are you managing…

I feel like there is also a very high ceiling to how much scaffolding you can produce for the agents to get them to work better. This includes custom prompts, custom CLAUDE.md files, other documentation files for Claude to read, and especially how well and quickly your linting and tests can run, and how much functionality they cover. That's not to mention MCP and getting Claude to talk to your database or open your website using Playwright, which I have not even tried yet.

For example, I have a custom planning prompt that I will give a paragraph or two of information to, and then it will produce a specification document from that by searching the web and reading the code and documentation. And then I will review that specification document before passing it back to Claude Code to implement the change.

This works because it is a lot easier to review a specification document than it is to review the final code changes. So, if I understand it and guide it towards how I would want the feature to be implemented at the specification stage, that sets me up to have a much easier time reviewing the final result as well. Because it will more closely match my own mental model of the codebase and how things should be implemented.

And it feels like that is barely scratching the surface of setting up the coding environment for Claude Code to work in.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#90

> The truth that may be shocking to some is that open source contributions submitted by users do not really save me time either, because I also feel I have to do a rigorous review of them. This truly is shocking. If you are reviewing every single line of every package you intend to use how do you ever write any code?

You do not need to review every line of every package you use, just the subset of the interface you import/link and use. You have to review every line of code you commit into your project. I think attempting to equate the two is dishonest dissembling.
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