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Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

port.ac.uk

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Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#81

Post by exe34 »

asveikau wrote: post #18
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your honor, I could not have possibly shot that person, because yesterday might not have been before today, or at least, there is reasonable doubt that yesterday was before today, according to some physicists on crack. I treat those physicists with high regard personally though, and they have degrees that you don't have, so the court must reasonably conclude their opinions should be entertained."

I guess that's a joke, but it's actually kind of serious that causality, personhood, identity, free will, etc. are all social constructs. They are useful to us, but every now and then it's helpful and humbling to remember it's a fiction we assign, rather than fundamental. Criminal justice or the concept of culpability is one of these areas. I know I've seen material by Robert Sapolsky, a neuroscientist who does not b…

An interesting corner of philosophy for me is when people worry about perfect clones with all your memories. The only reason it bothers us is because we're not used to our doppelgangers turning up and claiming our sofas and relationships. In a polity where clones are commonplace and provision is made to inform the source and the perfect copy that their material possess will be divided or some stuff will be provided, the shock value would fade away.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#82

Post by koakuma-chan »

bmacho wrote: post #25

> The Big Bang is often described as the explosive birth of the universe – a singular moment when space, time and matter sprang into existence. It is indeed "often described" in the media as such. However, that is _not_ the currently accepted theory. "What if there were no space and time before the Big Bang" is just Stephen Hawking's pet theory.

What is the currently accepted theory?

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#83

Post by jerf »

bmacho wrote: post #25

> The Big Bang is often described as the explosive birth of the universe – a singular moment when space, time and matter sprang into existence. It is indeed "often described" in the media as such. However, that is _not_ the currently accepted theory. "What if there were no space and time before the Big Bang" is just Stephen Hawking's pet theory.

A more accurate summation would be that our theories do not permit us to go back beyond what appears to be the "Big Bang", and indeed, we can't quite get to it either, since the need for Quantum Gravity becomes too great as we get to what seems to be the "zero time". We have no principled, reasonable way to make any claims about what came before the point where our theories break down, and that includes the claim that there was no space or time at all before then.

Thus, anything and everything you've heard about what is there "before the big bang" has always been speculation. I mention this because sometimes people read the science media, which is always reporting on this speculation, and think that the reporting on the speculation constitutes "science" constantly changing its mind, but that's not the case here. Science has consistently not had a justifiable position on this topic, ever. It has always been speculation. It is the press that often fails to make this clear and writes stories in terms of what "science" has "discovered", but any claims of certainty in this area are not the claims of "science".

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#84

Post by jaapbadlands »

RS-232 wrote: post #79

Not many people these days like to hear this (I myself was one of them), but the answer to this is in Genesis. There's a reason some of the most famous mathematicians, scientists, engineers, and philosophers of all time believe(d) in God. The Hebrew name of God, YHWH, literally means "He Who Is." In other words, the Self-Existent One. The father and originator of all things that were, are, and will be, who exists out…

That explains nothing.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#85

Post by JdeBP »

DannyPage wrote: post #8

Asimov already covered this in The Last Question: https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~gamvrosi/thelastq.html

Not really. Asimov's story did not represent the process as a mathematically inevitable consequence of physics. It might not even have gone through a second cycle. Cellular life, dollars, and teletypes would all have had to come about again. (-:

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#86

Post by Kranar »

Morizero wrote: post #29
mrtksn wrote: post #16

Isn't time a human invention useful to model the nature? It's literally just a defined interaction as a reference, i.e. the sun rising up and going down which is the rotation of the earth. So IRL there's no time, there's no need to have a beginning or an end. Whatever happened when all the matter was close together isn't the beginning of anything, just a phase.

Not true. The arrow of entropy has a direction and it's the same as the arrow of time. There's not a good explanation for why though.

There's a perfectly good explanation for why though, in fact the explanation is what motivated the formalism of entropy to begin with. There are significantly more ways that the energy contained within a closed system can spread throughout that system than there are ways for energy contained within a closed system to condense, so that if you observe the state of a system at two different moments in time, you will expect to see it evolve towards the statistically more likely outcome than the statistically less likely outcome.

And from first principles, that's what entropy is, a measure of how energy is dispersed throughout a system. Of course once you have that first principle understanding of entropy then you can come up with more rigorous formalisms to properly quantify what it means for energy to be distributed throughout a system, such as measuring the number of microstates that correspond to a macrostate, and other various formalisms that are more or less equal to each other... but fundamentally they all start from this basic principle.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#87

Post by RS-232 »

jaapbadlands wrote: post #84
RS-232 wrote: post #79

Not many people these days like to hear this (I myself was one of them), but the answer to this is in Genesis. There's a reason some of the most famous mathematicians, scientists, engineers, and philosophers of all time believe(d) in God. The Hebrew name of God, YHWH, literally means "He Who Is." In other words, the Self-Existent One. The father and originator of all things that were, are, and will be, who exists out…

That explains nothing.

Neither does the precursor to the Big Bang. It's the same exact thing.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#88

Post by xorokongo »

dist-epoch wrote: post #55
xorokongo wrote: post #10

"Nothing" implies that something exists, this duality creates the universe.

Only if something exists. But both nothing and something could not exist, and then there is no duality, just nothingness without a something to relate it too.

The concept of Nothing can only exist if Something exists, they both exist and are the substance that make up the universe.

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#89

Post by int_19h »

edfletcher_t137 wrote: post #70

> The black hole universe also offers a new perspective on our place in the cosmos. In this framework, our entire observable universe lies inside the interior of a black hole formed in some larger “parent” universe. Does it also follow that black holes in our universe contain universes internally, beyond their event horizons?! Seems like it should. Mind-blowing.

It's not a new idea, although I don't think it would be accurate to describe the other universes as "contained" within the black hole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole#Big_Bang/Supermassi...

Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole

#90

Post by lelag »

edfletcher_t137 wrote: post #70

> The black hole universe also offers a new perspective on our place in the cosmos. In this framework, our entire observable universe lies inside the interior of a black hole formed in some larger “parent” universe. Does it also follow that black holes in our universe contain universes internally, beyond their event horizons?! Seems like it should. Mind-blowing.

Damn, I would not have guessed that Men In Black was actually a documentary...
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