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Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

skarlso.github.io

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Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#81

Post by skarlso »

WOW this blew up. I didn't expect it at all... Thank you so much for everyone engaging with it. I know it's a difficult topic. And I might have used skeptics term incorrectly? :)

The school LLM thing is absolutely real. And it's not even a cheap school. It's a school in Denmark. I was very disappointed to know this and was not expecting it at all. And it's sadly, not an assignment to learn llms either. I'd wish it was something like that.

To the ones saying we've seen this before with google search, ides, etc. Not on this scale. And even then, you didn't _completely_ outsource you ability to think. I _think_ that is super dangerous. Especially for young people who get into the habit a lot faster. And suddenly, we have people unable to think without asking an LLM for advice. Other disruptive technologies didn't affect thinking on this massive scale.

I'm not saying stop AI booo, that's obviously not going to happen. And I don't want to, maybe the singularity is just an AI away. Who knows? However, I'm asking that we absolutely put that thing behind some kind of oversight especially in schools for young people before they develop critical thinking skills. After all you started to count on paper before you start using a calculator for a reason.

Again, thank you for this discussion. I'm really grateful for the engagement.

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#82

Post by yubblegum »

stavros wrote: post #79
yubblegum wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical thinking ability is not remotely akin to a mode of transport from a menu of alternatives. > do I need them, or not? Based on this comment of yours, the answer is a resounding yes, you do.

Then they will never atrophy and we have no problem.

Critical thinking is something that you can develop. Don't give up so easily.

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#84

Post by [deleted] »

anal_reactor wrote: post #65
auggierose wrote: post #4

> And as a last point, I fear very much what’s going on in schools. My son is in school. And the teacher literally said they need to use an LLM otherwise they won’t score high enough because the other pupils are using LLMs and the teacher is using an LLM to grade/check it. This is ridiculous. And if you think that’s okay or you don’t see a serious problem with this, then that’s an even greater problem. If that is tru…

I attended one of best high schools in the area. One teacher, when I asked him what I can do about my failing grade, told me "you can go hang yourself". Why was I getting a failing grade in the first place? Well, it was normal that three quarters of the class would be failing his tests. That's just the kind of teacher he was. The PE teacher thought that his role was to teach us discipline based on fear. Later I heard…

[deleted]

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#85

Post by philosophty »

pell wrote: post #52
philosophty wrote: post #35

The elephant in the room here is that, like so many issues, AI has become political for some people. In this case your "AI skeptic friends" are your "defund the police" and "abolish ICE" friends. For 95% of people AI is just a new technology to be loved and feared. There are some real technical debates to be had about the capabilities of LLMs and agents but that's not what's driving this "AI skepticism" at all. The "…

> The elephant in the room here is that, like so many issues, AI has become political for some people. In this case your "AI skeptic friends" are your "defund the police" and "abolish ICE" friends. For 95% of people AI is just a new technology to be loved and feared. I really don’t think there is this “elephant” at all. If you reduce critique, skepticism and fear people might have to political slogans of mainly fring…

Fear of AI is universal but skepticism is not. It's a (primarily) far left meme that AI is just hype and should be compared to scams like cryptocurrencies.

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#86

Post by philosophty »

JodieBenitez wrote: post #49
philosophty wrote: post #35

The elephant in the room here is that, like so many issues, AI has become political for some people. In this case your "AI skeptic friends" are your "defund the police" and "abolish ICE" friends. For 95% of people AI is just a new technology to be loved and feared. There are some real technical debates to be had about the capabilities of LLMs and agents but that's not what's driving this "AI skepticism" at all. The "…

Maybe you could consider that some of us are not AI skeptics "in advance" and have already witnessed its downsides that in some particular conditions outweight its upsides.

AI, like every technology, has downsides. The AI skeptics are pretending AI has little to no upsides.

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#87

Post by anal_reactor »

yubblegum wrote: post #77
anal_reactor wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I attended one of best high schools in the area. One teacher, when I asked him what I can do about my failing grade, told me "you can go hang yourself". Why was I getting a failing grade in the first place? Well, it was normal that three quarters of the class would be failing his tests. That's just the kind of teacher he was. The PE teacher thought that his role was to teach us discipline based on fear. Later I heard…

This is so over the top that you might as well name and shame here to lend credibility to your story. What school in what "area" are you talking about?

Yeah and dox myself. No thank you.

It's not "over the top". It's the reality of the education system in Eastern Europe.

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#88

Post by ModernMech »

xnx wrote: post #72
at_compile_time wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any examination that isn't done in person on general course material (nothing an LLM could prepare for you) is just stubborn refusal to protect students from themselves in an age where anything else can be faked. Graded homework and take-home assignments are dead as useful pedagogical tools.

Death of homework could be a great thing. The education system teaching that schoolwork must be done at home is conditioning future workers to accept working late and taking their work home.

You're conflating education work with productive work. School is about learning, for one's personal fulfilment. You're supposed to do that mostly on your own time. School is just a way to keep you motivated to learn a particular thing, and the notion of homework is necessary to reinforce that learning happens on your own and in a classroom.

But actually mostly on your own. 45 minutes twice a week in a classroom is just not enough time to learn anything of substance and depth. The Thursday-to-Tuesday memory loss is especially profound; Tuesday class is mostly spent reminding everyone who didn't do their homework what we had talked about last Thursday.

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#89

Post by hackyhacky »

drewcoo wrote: post #69
hackyhacky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but also we need to ask why is it a problem? Used to be, it was considered critically important that students learn to write in cursive and to multiply 3 digit numbers in their head. I can't do either, and I suspect many folks these days can't either. The world has not ended. I also can't tie a square knot, lasso a steed, or mend a fence. School assignments have always been a waste of time. Essay-writing…

> Essay-writing is not a critical skill If not that then what? Prompt engineering?

Maybe nothing at all. Maybe human mind is obsolete. What then?

Re: Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#90

Post by thefz »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #76
thefz wrote: post #74

I can't shake the belief that the more one finds LLMs useful, the less valuable their work already is. Something that has no guarantee,not even a reassurance of being correct should not be trusted with any meaningful work

I need you to understand that software development with LLMs isnt about writing a prompt to spit out your entire app.

I would not trust a single instruction that hasn't been reasoned over by a real person in my codebase. YMMV
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