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German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

politico.eu

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Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#81

Post by lucianbr »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #75
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because with large companies, blame and accountability gets spread thin over a wide area till it evaporates, so everyone gets away with it.

Someone floated on here that the punishment should be partial government ownership stakes instead of weak fines. It doesn't syphon off funds and risk damaging important national companies that are 'too big to punish'. Instead it dilutes shareholder value and DIRECTLY impacts the company owners. It also gives the government an inside place in the company which no company wants to deal with. If a company doesn't change…

Proof that solutions exist, if we want them. Whatever the cause of the apparent impunity of large corporations and rich people, it is not a lack of workable solutions. See also fines proportional to income, which now exist in multiple countries.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#82

Post by tonyedgecombe »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #64
lucianbr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been some years since VW had to give up cheating on emission tests. Were they beaten by US competitors during this time? I have not read any news about it.

They have kind of abandoned diesel engines, which the whole scandal was based around. It became clear that it would be impossible to create diesel engines which would comply with enviromental standards, which is a shame since they are more efficient and it is consumers who are losing out. They are still one of the main automotive conglomerations today. If anything American car companies are losing the market in Europ…

The funny thing is their emissions weren’t that bad, several other European manufacturers were worse.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#83

Post by ferguess_k »

hermitcrab wrote: post #5

Good for Germany, but it is all too rare to see bad corporate behaviour punished like this. Steal £10k from a company, and you will probably go to prison for a long time. Start a company and steal billions from your customers and/or the tax payer, and you will probably get away with it. I believe Iceland was the only country to jail bankers after the 2008 banking disaster. We are still waiting for the British governm…

窃(Steal)钩(hook)者(people)诛(gets a death sentence)

窃(Steal)国(country)者(people)侯(gets to be the king)

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#84

Post by lurk2 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #9
fanwood wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, it's just that rich people are mostly above the law most of the time

Rich people are above the law precisely because they use corporations and corporate laws as shields to deflect personal liability of their actions as a actions of "the company" which is a faceless entity. "You see, I didn't steal your money, the company I ran stole your money, but that's actually on you because you didn't read the fine print I put in the contract you signed. And don't worry, justice was served, the c…

> I didn't steal your money, the company I ran stole your money

This isn’t how it works.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#85

Post by FridayoLeary »

lucianbr wrote: post #76
FridayoLeary wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have kind of abandoned diesel engines, which the whole scandal was based around. It became clear that it would be impossible to create diesel engines which would comply with enviromental standards, which is a shame since they are more efficient and it is consumers who are losing out. They are still one of the main automotive conglomerations today. If anything American car companies are losing the market in Europ…

I could be wrong but I think BMW and Mercedes still make diesel engines. So maybe it's only impossible at a lower price point? Although the difference isn't that large.

Even VW never stopped selling diesel cars, but they are certainly being phased out everywhere and it's not as popular as it once was.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#86

Post by nickff »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #73
jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually it happens only if you steal from investors. Stealing from consumers is fine.

Stealing from employees is just normal business in the US. $1.5 billion in stolen wages were recovered for US workers between 2021 and 2023. Imagine how much wasn't recovered. It is often the least able to take action/most in need of every dollar of their income that are stolen from. You can tell a lot about a society by how it treats those with the least power versus those with power. https://www.epi.org/publication…

[flagged]

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#87

Post by DocTomoe »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #64
lucianbr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been some years since VW had to give up cheating on emission tests. Were they beaten by US competitors during this time? I have not read any news about it.

They have kind of abandoned diesel engines, which the whole scandal was based around. It became clear that it would be impossible to create diesel engines which would comply with enviromental standards, which is a shame since they are more efficient and it is consumers who are losing out. They are still one of the main automotive conglomerations today. If anything American car companies are losing the market in Europ…

In all fairness, in the general European perception, with the Cougar, the Puma, and the Focus, Ford is not really seen as an "American" brand. Especially the Focus has virtually nothing to do with what Europeans would consider 'an American car'. It is the quintessential low-to-mid-tier Eurocar: small, cheap, does what it is supposed to do.

Compare that to e.g. Chevrolet, which tried - and failed - to get a foothold in Europe. The failure was mostly them not understanding the local market.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#88

Post by johnklos »

MortyWaves wrote: post #38

The last time I read any updates on this, everyone on both sides of the legal process were trying to single out scapegoat individual software engineers and rake them over the coals. Did something change?

I don't think software engineers were independently looking at emissions data and unilaterally decided to "fix" the emissions shortcomings in software. I think they were told by others to do that. It's good that Germany is going after the people who decided that fraud was the answer.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#89

Post by DocTomoe »

hulitu wrote: post #32
constantcrying wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Start a company and steal billions from your customers and/or the tax payer, and you will probably get away with it. In this case not only were the managers personally held liable, the company itself also had to pay vast amounts of compensation to customers. Not only in Germany or the EU, but also to US customers.

> not only were the managers personally held liable Yes but not all of them. The top one is still evading justice.

Good luck proving where the decision was made. Volkswagen's CEO is unlikely to have been asked whether to be 'creative' about testing setups.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#90

Post by 7952 »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #75
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because with large companies, blame and accountability gets spread thin over a wide area till it evaporates, so everyone gets away with it.

Someone floated on here that the punishment should be partial government ownership stakes instead of weak fines. It doesn't syphon off funds and risk damaging important national companies that are 'too big to punish'. Instead it dilutes shareholder value and DIRECTLY impacts the company owners. It also gives the government an inside place in the company which no company wants to deal with. If a company doesn't change…

I wonder if you could require the company to licence all its IP for free within the country. So that the brand and designs could still exist.
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