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Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

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Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#81

Post by Sharlin »

tdeck wrote: post #66
Sharlin wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely that a bale of hay was simply a conspicuous but lightweight thing that was easy to get your hands on back in the day.

Also if it comes undone and falls in the river, it's not likely to do any harm. Aside: Although the article makes the same mistake, hay and straw are not the same thing. Hay is dead green grass-like plants. Straw is dead brown grass-like plant matter that has finished it's lifecycle and used up all the sugars and things in it. Hay gets moldy more easily but has nutrients for animals while straw does not decompose as…

Yes, I realized that after the edit grace period. Specifically, straw is the dried stalks of cereal that have very little nutritional value to begin with, whereas hay is reaped grass, legumes, whatever herbaceous plants that grazing livestock normally eat.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#82

Post by arp242 »

dismalpedigree wrote: post #10

This is why laws should have sunset clauses

They can just change the law?

I suspect the reason it's not in this case is because it's kind of an endearing tradition that people like. I don't think you can say much about "the law" in general based on this case.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#83

Post by jvvw »

jgrahamc wrote: post #32
bb123 wrote: post #19

Reminds me of the fact that for 500 years everyone graduating with a BA from Oxford had to swear that they would never agree to the reconciliation of Henry Symeonis, despite no one having any idea who he was for most of that time.

Yes! I was disappointed to learn when I graduated with my BA that this oath was no longer required. However, I continue refuse to reconcile with Henry Symeonis. It's only been 800 years, you never know when it might be important. After all, the Anglo-Portuguese is still in force 650 years on!

Looks like it was removed in 1827. I don't actually remember having to say anything at any of my graduation ceremonies there (BA, MA, DPhil), just walking on to the stage. I do wonder if at matriculation we all had to make some oath together but I think I would have remembered if that had been the case. I have a strong feeling though I might have had to make an oath when I became a scholar - there was definitely a ceremony we had to go to - but that would have been college-dependent.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#84

Post by wisty »

dghf wrote: post #37
maratc wrote: post #14

That's the British system working as designed. If there's a law, no matter how ancient, the British should comply. If a law needs to be changed, that's the Parliament's job. Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" -- see for example [0] or [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v_Thornton [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_v…

In what places do courts ignore or modify law to deliver the result they prefer? (To be precise: where is that accepted practice, rather than aberrant behaviour by some judges?)

The US.

There are vague rights in the constitution.

It could be a disaster for the courts to interpret them too literally (Is literally any weapon OK in the 2nd? Does free speech include a mob boss ordering a hit?) and constitutions are really hard to amend, so heavy interpretation is a nessessary evil.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#85

Post by throwup238 »

avhception wrote: post #65
jgrahamc wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! I was disappointed to learn when I graduated with my BA that this oath was no longer required. However, I continue refuse to reconcile with Henry Symeonis. It's only been 800 years, you never know when it might be important. After all, the Anglo-Portuguese is still in force 650 years on!

Clearly a case of Chesterton's Fence. Who knows what eldritch horrors might result from the removal of that oath!

Someone outside of Eton might get elected.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#86

Post by zeristor »

throwup238 wrote: post #85
avhception wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly a case of Chesterton's Fence. Who knows what eldritch horrors might result from the removal of that oath!

Someone outside of Eton might get elected.

But then we wouldn’t be in a Mess.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#87

Post by oniony »

Sharlin wrote: post #55
DocTomoe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often, these things are utilitarian, not mystical. So my educated guess: Back in the day, the main problem was river mariners getting hurt by bridge arches that were lower than expected, and the bale of straw was a 'soft buffer' - better to get your head hit by a swinging bale of straw than a rock-solid bridge.

More likely that a bale of hay was simply a conspicuous but lightweight thing that was easy to get your hands on back in the day.

Indeed. Cheap, readily available, heavy enough to hang, soft enough to bump out of the way. Honestly, it's a mystery to me why it's a mystery. What else would they use, a dead sheep?

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#88

Post by zeristor »

rustcleaner wrote: post #64
maratc wrote: post #14

That's the British system working as designed. If there's a law, no matter how ancient, the British should comply. If a law needs to be changed, that's the Parliament's job. Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" -- see for example [0] or [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v_Thornton [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_v…

>If there's a law, no matter how ancient, the British should comply. If a law needs to be changed, that's the Parliament's job. If that's not religion, I don't know what is...

There’s a word for that sort of thing, it just happens to be:

antidisestablishmentarianism

That is for the removal of the Church of England as the religion of England, but it’s along those lines.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#89

Post by red_admiral »

breggles wrote: post #20
maratc wrote: post #14

That's the British system working as designed. If there's a law, no matter how ancient, the British should comply. If a law needs to be changed, that's the Parliament's job. Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" -- see for example [0] or [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v_Thornton [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_v…

So, the full clause reads: "When the headroom of an arch or span of a bridge is reduced from its usual limits but that arch or span is not closed to navigation, the person in control of the bridge must suspend from the centre of that arch or span by day a bundle of straw large enough to be conspicuous and by night a white light." Does that mean the law is not being complied with, in this case, since the bales are han…

Delays due to trucks striking bridges are a worldwide problem, at least in countries with railroads. Despite yellow black striped reflective panels and height warning signs and sometimes height detectors that trigger flashing red lights.

Perhaps we should try a bale of straw next.

The London Blackwall tunnel has a more modern take on checking height: https://maps.app.goo.gl/b5P5Td1hsuSjLU3w8 traffic signals, barriers like at a railroad crossing, giant panels across the road at height, and a police car on standby to pull out and fine anyone that doesn't read the signs - I presume this happens often enough that they can justify the cost.

But then the bale of straw applied to ships not vehicles and bridges not tunnels.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#90

Post by red_admiral »

theshrike79 wrote: post #8
guerrilla wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case anyone else forgot what that means. > The "brown M&M clause" was a specific contract requirement by Van Halen that demanded all brown M&Ms be removed from a bowl of M&Ms provided backstage before their performances. This clause was not a frivolous demand but a way to test if the concert promoters had read the entire contract carefully. If brown M&Ms were found, it indicated that other important technical deta…

And an additional note: The Van Halen show wasn't a few dudes with guitars and a set of drums going around in a van. It was a massive display of pyrotechnics and staging - the requirements in the rider weren't there for fun, it was for actual safety.

Didn't they also specify something like a 20 ampere widget plugged into a 10 ampere cable or something? If no-one questioned that, they'd hire or bring their own electrician to check absolutely everything with a cable near it. (That might have been another band, it was a long time ago I read this.)
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