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Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#81

Post by kungfooguru »

throwMeAway576 wrote: post #78
drone wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting take: "I assume you simply mean an attack happened due to finding out the abuses committed by the US government." You do realize, Wikileaks released unredacted documents with names of people who were working with the US to try and right wrongs in their own countries? People who were later targeted by their own governments who are known to "commit abuses.."

You do realize, Wikileaks released unredacted documents ONLY when The Guardian - by accident - had published the password to the archive in a book.

And the US government would not help in redacting most leaks :). Though Wikileaks continued to ask.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#82

Post by throwMeAway576 »

trevelyan wrote: post #64
magoon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find the idea that you can prosecute someone with espionage (most likely) for what is essentially journalism very disturbing. Is it journalism? I never saw a story when I read the leaks; it seems that their purpose has been to disclose private (stolen) conversations that are obviously state secrets. Update: I'm backing away from this; my only intention was to ask whether it would make anybody a "journalist"…

There is no copyright on government documents. Once you know something it is no longer a secret by definition and you are free to discuss and report on it. It seems with Wikileaks that this is no longer the case, making this a stunning attack on freedom of the press and freedom of speech. If you want to get uptight about the security implications of the leaks, a better place to start is wondering who setup the system…

And he is one more than 4 million who have such access, by the way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNet

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#83

Post by sillysaurus »

drone wrote: post #72
kungfooguru wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, what? Who was this attacker? I assume you simply mean an attack happened due to finding out the abuses committed by the US government. As opposed to what you seem to try to imply that the leaks themselves put someone in danger. The truth didn't kill anyone. Those who committed the acts and gave the orders that became the truth that had to be leaked did.

Interesting take: "I assume you simply mean an attack happened due to finding out the abuses committed by the US government." You do realize, Wikileaks released unredacted documents with names of people who were working with the US to try and right wrongs in their own countries? People who were later targeted by their own governments who are known to "commit abuses.."

To be clear: the release was accidental. Assange did not intend to release the cables. They were stored in an encrypted zip file with a password which due to a series of unfortunate circumstances was made public.

It was a disaster for Wikileaks that the cables were released. It was like a nuclear first strike. Assange knew that, and that's of course why he didn't release them. It's truly a shame that they were accidentally made public. These secrets are going to be irrelevant 10 years from now, and came at the cost of dealing a serious blow to the infrastructure which made that information release possible in the first place.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#84

Post by glesica »

magoon wrote: post #71
Tycho wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in the era of Watergate it wasn't like dumping the information onto bit-torrent was a viable option for the investigative journalists. They had to write it up in article form just to communicate their findings.

Interesting point, however I am having a hard time coming up with another journalist in this era who reports their findings by dumping information onto bit-torrent.

So what? Seriously, why does it matter even one iota if there are others doing the same thing? Your entire objection to Wikileaks seems to be that it is unconventional in a literal sense, it doesn't follow the conventions of journalism that you are comfortable with. But that's just how new things work, they're different because they're new and innovative.

Unless you have a better reason than "it's different and weird", your objections are just like those of a grumpy old man complaining about the music the youngsters listen to these days.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#85

Post by olofsj »

alayne wrote: post #57
_b8r0 wrote: post #53

I'm surprised no-one's pointed out the irony of a man locked up in a building in order to stop him from being locked up in a building. Seriously though, lets try to look at this objectively. We have a man who is wanted for questioning relating to sexual offences and is actively trying to escape the charges. In any normal situation, we would all say that he should go and face the courts and if guilty do the time. Pro-…

You say you want to look at it objectively and then right away you claim he is "actively trying to escape the charges." The Assange side has only ever claimed they were concerned with due process. I think most people would agree that without due process there is no proper justice. Sweden won't guarantee that it will not extradite Assange to the U.S. If this is about justice for the rape charges, then why can't they m…

Apparently, the reason anyone in Sweden can't give any guarantee about an extradition is that any such extradition has to be tried in the courts, and the Swedish constitution doesn't grant anyone the power to decide the result without a trial.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#86

Post by magoon »

glesica wrote: post #77
magoon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm uptight? I raise a valid point -- journalists don't capture and disseminate private conversations, they report. I have never seen a journalistic article from Wikileaks, much as I have never seen a journalist simply distribute a bunch of private conversations with no story.

Seems like a meaningless difference to me. You're saying that if Wikileaks had carefully summarized each document instead of releasing the actual documents then it would be journalism? Wikileaks presented information, just because that information wasn't in a form that you are comfortable and familiar with doesn't make it not journalism. No one had ever seen a journalist who published exclusively online until a few y…

> You're saying that if Wikileaks had carefully summarized each document instead of releasing the actual documents then it would be journalism?

Um...yeah

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#87

Post by magoon »

magoon wrote: post #71
Tycho wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in the era of Watergate it wasn't like dumping the information onto bit-torrent was a viable option for the investigative journalists. They had to write it up in article form just to communicate their findings.

Interesting point, however I am having a hard time coming up with another journalist in this era who reports their findings by dumping information onto bit-torrent.

> Your entire objection to Wikileaks seems to be that it is unconventional in a literal sense

I'm not objecting to Wikileaks, I'm objecting to Assange calling it journalism.

I've gotten downvoted simply because people are emotional over this -- as if I'm attacking them.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#88

Post by trevelyan »

magoon wrote: post #75
magoon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm uptight? I raise a valid point -- journalists don't capture and disseminate private conversations, they report. I have never seen a journalistic article from Wikileaks, much as I have never seen a journalist simply distribute a bunch of private conversations with no story.

> Government documents are not private conversations. huh? if they weren't private, then why were they newsworthy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#89

Post by rmc »

icebraining wrote: post #61
alayne wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say you want to look at it objectively and then right away you claim he is "actively trying to escape the charges." The Assange side has only ever claimed they were concerned with due process. I think most people would agree that without due process there is no proper justice. Sweden won't guarantee that it will not extradite Assange to the U.S. If this is about justice for the rape charges, then why can't they m…

Playing Devil's advocate, Sweden has treaties with the U.S. about extradition; is it reasonable for a country to suspend them because a suspect demands so?

Yes in theory Sweden could just suspend the treaties for a while. We're up there with "storming the embassy" levels of diplomatic fuck-up-ery there. They aren't going to suspend international treaties like that.

Re: Julian Assange urges US to end Wikileaks 'witch-hunt'

#90

Post by olofsj »

vidarh wrote: post #35
jusben1369 wrote: post #28

I know it's very contrarian to not be 100% pro Assange on this board but all I ever see are the pro Assange interpretation of the facts. Some things to consider: - "Sometime during Wilen's questioning the police announced to Ardin and Wilen that Assange was to be arrested and questioned about possible rape and molestation." This was the initial questioning by local authorities. So unless every police station in every…

> "Sometime during Wilen's questioning the police announced to Ardin and Wilen that Assange was to be arrested and questioned about possible rape and molestation." This was the initial questioning by local authorities. So unless every police station in every part of Sweden had been told to get Assange no matter what at any opportunity it's unlikely this was some conspiracy. Perhaps the local police station over react…

Thank you for a very thoughtful post. A politically radical prosecutor stepping in to push her own agenda in a case with exceptionally high media coverage sounds much more likely than a conspiracy involving the CIA.
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