Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 105 posts

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#81

Post by bobxmax »

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #74
suddenlybananas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like she was offered equity and chose a meagre salary. Don't paint exploitation as a trade-off.

This is not a forum that is capable of factoring in power dynamics in any economic discussion. The market is always perfect, everyone has equal opportunities to capitalize on their own labor as an entrepreneur, just negotiate with your employer, etc.

She's an artist, not some poor wage slave. The fact she gets paid a living wage at all for doodling in a notebook is thanks to the miracle of consumer capitalism.

Van Gogh couldn't trade his paintings for stale bread.

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#82

Post by polotics »

mrlatinos wrote: post #69
polotics wrote: post #23

Wow the money shot of this I think is the quote: "...Or at least have a bit more financial security to show for it. My designs have generated roughly 2 billion dollars for the people lucky enough to be cashing in on it. Not bad surplus value for someone on an 88k salary.""" 88k AUD is less than 60'000 USD, and as this art director worked one year on this, the raw ratio of wage earned to this is 0.00003, so 0.003 perc…

Was this quote removed from the post? I'm not seeing it.

it's in the 4-parts series, the whole is well worth a read

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#83

Post by suddenlybananas »

bobxmax wrote: post #80
suddenlybananas wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a technical term. She produced immense value and she didn't receive it, someone else took it. That's exploitation in Marxism. I also don't get where you get these idea that there's this huge glut of artists producing work that's unpopular and getting paid for it . If you're at the point you're getting paid 90k a year, you're working in studios that almost certainly turn a profit.

She didn't produce value. Someone else created value out of what she created. You ironically and accidentally stumbled onto the very reason Marxism has always failed so miserably.

This is an insane point of view. I genuinely don't understand how you can hold it. You don't think the person who actually made the product is the one who made the value? Do you believe in magic? Are capitalists just bestowing magic juju that creates value and any actual labour and hard work is irrelevant?

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#84

Post by suddenlybananas »

marbletiles wrote: post #77
brookst wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What studios consistently turn a profit? They have years where they make hundreds of millions, years when they lose hundreds of millions. It is weird to want the security of a paycheck, participation in unlikely huge successes, and no exposure to much more likely flops.

It’s not weird at all; in other circumstances we call it a bonus. You get baseline security by trading away the unlimited upside, but you are still incentivised to produce your best work by knowing if you help create a huge success you’ll get additional compensation for it.

You don't get security. You can be fired easily. It's workers who face the consequences of the risks taken on by capitalists.

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#85

Post by exitb »

suddenlybananas wrote: post #83
bobxmax wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She didn't produce value. Someone else created value out of what she created. You ironically and accidentally stumbled onto the very reason Marxism has always failed so miserably.

This is an insane point of view. I genuinely don't understand how you can hold it. You don't think the person who actually made the product is the one who made the value? Do you believe in magic? Are capitalists just bestowing magic juju that creates value and any actual labour and hard work is irrelevant?

The product is a cartoon (and associated services, merchandise), not the idea. There were countless people involved in creating the set of products, even if just one person came up with the concept.

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#86

Post by suddenlybananas »

exitb wrote: post #85
suddenlybananas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insane point of view. I genuinely don't understand how you can hold it. You don't think the person who actually made the product is the one who made the value? Do you believe in magic? Are capitalists just bestowing magic juju that creates value and any actual labour and hard work is irrelevant?

The product is a cartoon (and associated services, merchandise), not the idea. There were countless people involved in creating the set of products, even if just one person came up with the concept.

Sorry, I think we're talking cross-purposes here. I agree that the workers are the ones who should receive the profits. The art director is one such worker (out of many).

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#87

Post by jl6 »

ksynwa wrote: post #33
namdnay wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Bluey (like most shows people will work on) hadn’t been a huge success, he would still have kept his 88k That’s the inherent trade off in a salaried position - you are trading potential wealth for guaranteed security

Would be cool if there was a middle ground between risking destitution by claiming a share of the income made and giving up your fair share of the billions made in return of a modest salary.

The middle ground is usually to buy shares in your employer. In this case it seems like it’s the BBC who have hit the jackpot, so I guess the real winner is… the British public?

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#88

Post by suddenlybananas »

bobxmax wrote: post #81
jdgoesmarching wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a forum that is capable of factoring in power dynamics in any economic discussion. The market is always perfect, everyone has equal opportunities to capitalize on their own labor as an entrepreneur, just negotiate with your employer, etc.

She's an artist, not some poor wage slave. The fact she gets paid a living wage at all for doodling in a notebook is thanks to the miracle of consumer capitalism. Van Gogh couldn't trade his paintings for stale bread.

"doodling in a notebook". Are you aware of how big of a thing bluey is?

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#89

Post by dahart »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #73
dahart wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? @plotics wasn’t talking about remuneration for products or services, nor equity. “Capital ownership” in the sentence you quoted is referring to the company, the ol’ ownership of the means of production. “Granting full access to work-created value” means the owners (investors, CEO, etc.) would split profits among workers rather than keep the profits for themselves.

That is called equity (at least in the USA). > Granting full access to work-created value” means the owners (investors, CEO, etc.) would split profits among workers rather than keep the profits for themselves. This is remuneration, the reward in exchange for your effort/wares/risk. In this case, the artist would have had to ask taxpayers (or the taxpayers’ representatives) to sell them a piece of the taxpayer’s equit…

You asked what the capital is, and the government assets reserved for well connected people is the “capital” in this case.

You can call capital equity or remuneration, but that seems slightly weird even though there’s overlap of concepts. Either way, I don’t think that’s what the phrase @plotics used was referring to. The “capital” in that case was referring to the money, goods, and other means of production used to finance the project before any remuneration occurs. Capital is the leverage by which the well connected people assert the rights to the future profits. Workers not having equity is indeed what not having access to the full value means, which keeps workers from building capital.

I think we’re probably in agreement. And even though there’s an analogy to capital, Bluey wasn’t a capitalist operation so definitely not clear Marxist ideas apply here.

Re: Creating Bluey: Tales from the Art Director

#90

Post by unsnap_biceps »

jazzcomputer wrote: post #21
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to share their name, I'd love to take a look at their games and support a positive place.

Runaway Play I also hear good things about Dinosaur Polo Club

Funny! I have played both the games Dinosaur Polo Club has released.

I'll take a gander at Runaway Play later this weekend. Thank you for the pointer!

Post reply on HN