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Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

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Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#81

Post by neilv »

ponector wrote: post #79
neilv wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obsequious You might've hit what bugs me about dining out (in the US). My favorite place for first dates was this particular cafe-restaurant, where a server would come to your table for your order, eventually, but otherwise didn't bother you. For example, they did none of the apparently standard barge-in of your conversation, 10 minutes after you're served, asking how everything is. Also, in restaurants in general,…

>I wish more servers would be more subtle Why would they change their behavior if you tip anyway?

I think it would be jerky to give feedback notes to a server, and almost no one will do it, so the message wouldn't come across that way.

I'd guess what's needed is to promote a different school of thought via broadcast (e.g., through lifestyle articles and restaurant trade publications).

Though it might be that I'm not representative, and more US diners want to go through the rituals of being served conspicuously, as part of the experience.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#82

Post by ponector »

jasode wrote: post #80
ponector wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me ridiculous is the fact you are tipping only person who brings the plate. You dining experience is affected more by other people: person who actually prepared the dish and person who cleans the toilet. Their poor work can easily ruin your dinner experience, but tips are expected to the person walking with plates.

>you are tipping only person who brings the plate. You dining experience is affected more by other people A lot of restaurants have "tip sharing" , "tip out" , "tip pool" where the waitstaff share some portion of their tips with the hostess, foodrunners, cooks, etc. So the customer is really tipping all the workers except the managers. https://www.google.com/search?q=waitstaff+share+tip+share+ti...

Never heard about tip sharing with kitchen and especially with cleaning staff. Usually they share only with people working around the tables.

Poor latinos are working overtime on minimal hourly wage as dishwashers, basic food prep, etc and no tips for them.

That is my experience, it would be great if other places are more fair.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#83

Post by Gud »

yegle wrote: post #53

One random idea that I had for a while to replace tips: when I get a bill, that's the total amount I need to pay. There should be a line asking me to fill in a percentage. That percent of my bill goes to the service. And most importantly, set the percentage limit to 50%, so owner would have to raise menu price by 100% if they want to simply offset it. This way, customer don't feel like they are paying twice, the serv…

I have even more radical idea:

Use the agreed upon price set in the menu.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#84

Post by pixelatedindex »

throw310822 wrote: post #52
pixelatedindex wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, tipping on top of sales tax never made sense. Tip is always calculated from a pre-tax amount. And somehow the tip percentage has gone up - when I was young 15% was the norm. Precovid it was 18%. Now it’s 20%? Why is this being inflated? The prices have already gone up, so even at 15% the tip has ballooned. I also don’t understand why we have to tip waitstaff that is paid minimum wage - places like WA, CA,…

> To be fair, tipping on top of sales tax never made sense That's a bit funny. Why doesn't it make sense? There is no meaningful relationship between the amount you spend, fixed brackets like 15%, 20%, 30% etc, and the job the waiter did bringing you the food. It's all made up and unnecessary. You can be expected to pay it before taxes, after taxes, 0%, 80%, only for desserts, only on your birthday... It's completely…

Tipping is for service. It’s a charge and like all charges, it’s levied on the subtotal.

If I calculated tip after tax, I’m paying a portion of my tips to the state, and they are already getting their share via sales tax.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#85

Post by hiq »

dguest wrote: post #43
vldmrs wrote: post #14

As a European, I can safely say that tipping in American restaurants is one of the most unusual things I remember about America. The amount of tips is huge and they are demanded of you everywhere

As a European have you noticed a recent increase in tipping in Europe as well? In Switzerland a lot of the restaurants that have moved to tablets for payment, and the payment screen pops up a "suggested tip" window with a few options. They might be a bit lower than the standard American tips but it's still there and it never was before.

Sometimes it's ridiculous enough that the waiter is the one pressing "0%" to switch directly to payment, e.g. when you get your order at the bar yourself and the amount of service is minimal.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#86

Post by Sverigevader »

Tipping has been forced into Sweden for around 10-15? years now. I do not like it one bit. No one pays by cash, so they baked the tipping into the payment terminals. They usually come with 4-5 pre-made options with percentages, and _sometimes_ a "no gratuity" option, which will input your original total. IIRC it's always possible to skip it by pressing the (usually) green button to "continue". It'll always input your total and you can skip the entire thing and just blip your card.

Some customers started to input their PIN code (which you sometimes have to do) instead of their total when this was a new thing. It made for some hilarious totals.

One of the most egregious examples I can remember was a restaurant where you order digitally, and when done, you go and get your food/drinks yourself from the serving window. And they asked for tips... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sigh... I do sometimes tip though, never for lunch, but sometimes for dinner.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#87

Post by torlok »

ramesh31 wrote: post #25

Ask any server if they want to get rid of tips, even given an hourly wage that would be comparable, and the vast majority will say no. Those regulars who come in and slip you a $50 bill every now and then blows any kind of "fair wage" a restaraunt could pay you out of the water. It's like working on comission. Americans are rich (comparatively, globally). For all of our gripes we still have the highest disposable inc…

How many servers do you know to make such a bold assumption? I can't imagine somebody rational picking a roulette wheel over a "comparable" steady income. IMHO "if you can't tip, don't go" ends in a loss of customers, and unemployment.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#88

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

scarface_74 wrote: post #71
shermantanktop wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And European tourists are notorious for not tipping, because they have not taken the time to understand our bizarre customs which we don’t even like. Combine that with the fact that tourists everywhere are more difficult and time-consuming to deal with and it’s a recipe for resentment. Just last week I saw a group of Spanish visitors to NYC create a confusing maelstrom of orders at a coffee shop and then override the…

I frequent a bar in a tourist area with many international tourists. They finally just by default added an 18% service charge and a line for an additional tip. The servers and bartenders are always very explicit about the tip being included. This feels much more fair to me.

Here in the UK, it's common for a "service charge" to be added to bills which is the equivalent of a tip, but considered mandatory for large groups. I think the next step is to just roll the tips/service charge into the food prices and thus not be pushing employee wage issues onto customers.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#89

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

ponector wrote: post #79
neilv wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> obsequious You might've hit what bugs me about dining out (in the US). My favorite place for first dates was this particular cafe-restaurant, where a server would come to your table for your order, eventually, but otherwise didn't bother you. For example, they did none of the apparently standard barge-in of your conversation, 10 minutes after you're served, asking how everything is. Also, in restaurants in general,…

>I wish more servers would be more subtle Why would they change their behavior if you tip anyway?

Personally, I wouldn't bother trying to educate the server, but would instead choose somewhere else to eat.

Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants

#90

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

sans_souse wrote: post #57

Always tip for quality service, and tip with cash, directly. This way you know it is going to the person who rendered the service (and the person who likely needs it, as opposed to the owner of the business)

I don't understand why I should have to be judging just the "service" which is usually just taking the order and delivering the food. I find other aspects of restaurants to be more important such as the food quality, the comfort of the furniture and often the noise level (I don't want to have to be shouting to get heard above loud background music and everyone else having to shout).

If there's any logic behind it, why don't people tip their post delivery people for their service?

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