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Eurorack Knob Idea

mitxela.com

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Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#81

Post by enneff »

bondarchuk wrote: post #4

> It's a nice dream, of a synthesizer where any knob can be pulled out and replaced with a patch cable, and any jack can have a knob plugged into it to set it to a fixed value. What's even better, though, is a coupled knob + jack where the knob turns into an attenuator for the input when a cable is plugged in, and works as a standalone knob otherwise. I think this is quite a common design. I believe I've also seen pa…

This is why I really like Intellijel’s designs. They generally have attenuators on the inputs for which it makes sense, and those attenuators are the small stick knobs. While they use larger knobs for more central module functions.

Eg: https://intellijel.com/downloads/manuals/rubicon_manual.pdf

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#82

Post by tricky »

robotresearcher wrote: post #51
ericwood wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like a few good sounding pedals that, ideally, each have just a knob or two. It makes for a nice narrative but I haven't found it holds much water; musicians are all over the place on this spectrum. You'll find both extremes very well represented, and a good chunk of people who compartmentalize their "dayjob" music and tinkering. I've found a lot of successful musicians love to tinker and are always on the search f…

I swing bimodal on this. For a while I enjoy the most exotic modular patches and loaded pedalboard. Then for months I am all about piano and acoustic guitar, as vanilla as can be. It’s all so deep I’m not going run out of fun in any mode.

I'm the same on the guitar side. I'll go weeks using a fractal fm9 straight into the PA. it's like playing through a computer which is awesome. however...

I'll get real sick of the complexity and go back to my cranked tube amp and one overdrive pedal.

If I had to choose one, I couldn't.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#83

Post by enneff »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #6

It's interesting. I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though — do people want not just patch cables all over their mixing desk but knobs as well? Eurorack (and modular synths in general) seem like funny things. Like guitar pedals, I sense there are a lot of enthusiasts that do a lot more tinkering than actually playing them. Watching Rick Beato and guests on YouTube ... seems like a lot of musicians are loo…

There’s definitely a thing in music, as in computing, or golfing, or whatever, where some people are more into the gear than the actual practice of doing the thing. Modular synths are a great outlet for those kinds of people.

I have a modest Eurorack setup and a few other synths and I find them a nice way to get into music making without looking at a computer. It’s nice to have a limited set of options, rather than a near infinite set of software plugins and presets. My gear can only make a certain number of sounds at once, and that’s it. The liberty of constraints.

When I get serious about a music project I inevitably end up working in a computer DAW but I often don’t find that an inspiring place to start.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#84

Post by semi-extrinsic »

diggan wrote: post #11
JKCalhoun wrote: post #6

It's interesting. I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though — do people want not just patch cables all over their mixing desk but knobs as well? Eurorack (and modular synths in general) seem like funny things. Like guitar pedals, I sense there are a lot of enthusiasts that do a lot more tinkering than actually playing them. Watching Rick Beato and guests on YouTube ... seems like a lot of musicians are loo…

> It's interesting. I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though — do people want not just patch cables all over their mixing desk but knobs as well? I don't personally feel the need of wanting more cables all over my current setup, but sometimes I have had the feeling of "Oh if I could just modulate the VCF Cutoff on my Zen Delay with a patch cable from my modular instead of doing it manually" for some of th…

> And on the other side, I've also felt the need of having some of the patch holes replaced by knobs, so I could just twist and turn it to evaluate if I want to modulate it, instead of having to actually setup the patch.

That could be an interesting spin on this idea. A freestanding PCB with a jack plug on the back and a knob on the front. Turn the knob, and the jack sends CV accordingly. Maybe with a velcro based system to have the PCB stay still while you twiddle the knob.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#85

Post by sigy »

smj-edison wrote: post #76

Tangential idea, but I've wondered if it would be possible to make synthesizers a lot cheaper by only having a couple rotary encoders. You could have hundreds of parameters on the panel, but each parameter would just be a neopixel LED and button. You could link the rotary encoder with a parameter by pressing it and the parameters' button at the same time. Certainly not as nice as a dedicated knob for each, but you'd…

The physical interface is an intrinsic part of the design of any eurorack module, including artistic elements. If you actually use these, then you quickly tire of menu diving for simple options, and only modules that do very particular things make it worth the bother. For everything else, the layout must be accessible, memorable, understandable, and not too crowded. And it helps if the visual of the thing conjures up memories of how it sounds or what it does.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#86

Post by vhcr »

weinzierl wrote: post #18
scottapotamas wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might enjoy https://github.com/scottbez1/smartknob The complexity of this approach (ignoring the display and flair) unfortunately means you won’t see this used too often due to cost.

My dream is a piano keyboard with entirely software controlled mechanical key response. Every key individually mounted on a servostepper. As a bonus it could be used as a fake player piano. Or for practice you could make the wrong keys hard to press. Endless possibilities.

The Yamaha Disklavier has solenoids on every key, so you could disable every key but the one you want by moving them downwards.

It already has a similar feature called SmartKey: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Qj33POZCyA

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#87

Post by sigy »

alnwlsn wrote: post #38

> any jack can have a knob plugged into it to set it to a fixed value. I'm kind of surprised he didn't start with a knob with a tiny accelerometer, mcu and battery in it to produce some sort of output signal into a stock plug depending on how the knob is oriented with respect to gravity. Putting electronics inside the plug is nearly a mitxela trademark. https://mitxela.com/projects/flash_synth

Profit margins on eurorack are pretty damn low. And you need a lot of knobs and jacks and plugs. Even a hall effect sensor may be out of the sweet spot for cost.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#88

Post by smj-edison »

mdpye wrote: post #79
smj-edison wrote: post #76

Tangential idea, but I've wondered if it would be possible to make synthesizers a lot cheaper by only having a couple rotary encoders. You could have hundreds of parameters on the panel, but each parameter would just be a neopixel LED and button. You could link the rotary encoder with a parameter by pressing it and the parameters' button at the same time. Certainly not as nice as a dedicated knob for each, but you'd…

There are loads of systems where every button and encoder has many functions, with modal or paged interfaces. But I'm trying to stick to a model of no hidden or ephemeral state with my modular, just for fun, I guess. Mostly analogue, so no non-volatile memory to store settings, the positions of the patches and knobs set everything, and the test is that if I power it down and back up it must come back doing what it wa…

For sure! The interface is the most important part these days when practically everything can be emulated.

In my design, I wouldn't say the state is hidden though—that's the point of having an indicator light with every parameter. The LED becomes the state visualization. So, write-wise, yes, it's overloaded, but read-wise it's not.

I'm just now realizing I didn't explain that well in the OP, lol. And really this is more of a budget-friendly approach, rather than a user-friendly approach. I'm trying to meet those half way...

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#89

Post by munificent »

smj-edison wrote: post #76

Tangential idea, but I've wondered if it would be possible to make synthesizers a lot cheaper by only having a couple rotary encoders. You could have hundreds of parameters on the panel, but each parameter would just be a neopixel LED and button. You could link the rotary encoder with a parameter by pressing it and the parameters' button at the same time. Certainly not as nice as a dedicated knob for each, but you'd…

There was a trend in 80s synthesizers along these lines: Yamaha DX7, Ensoniq Mirage, etc.

They were famously hard to program. The DX7 in particular is known for basically being a preset machine because almost no one could figure out how to build patches with it.

Muscle memory is really important and it's hard for users to build a mental model of the internal architecture if the external architecture doesn't reflect it at all.

Re: Eurorack Knob Idea

#90

Post by m_kos »

recursive wrote: post #74
m_kos wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! This link is really great! My only Apple product is also an iPad, and I mostly use it to make music with Auxy Studio:) Do you use any fun apps on Android? Currently, my favorite apps are Digitron and Nanoloop. (No affiliation, but Digitron's upgrade was gifted to me.)

The only other music or audio app I use with any regularity is Reaper on Windows. I tend to do more performance-oriented stuff, and I try to keep everything outside the computer as much as practical. I don't use any software synths. I like the constraints and UX of dialing patches into my one keyboard/drum machine. I record some, but mainly I like to play in real time and not fiddle with VSTs and plugins.

Makes sense. Hardware is not something within my reach, currently, so I stick with software. I'm sure hardware can be a lot more fun.
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