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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#81

Post by whoisthemachine »

xyst wrote: post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

In regards to Federal agencies, a lot of it comes down to many people just not knowing much about these agencies, and much of what they do know are the scary bits and pieces capitalists have broadcast through their media (I hesitate to just call them conservatives, as their agenda is completely separate from moving law and government in a slow, conservative manner).

I for one didn't even know we had an agency like USAID, which sounds like it has done wonderful work around the world. Most people (again, myself included), probably don't know just what the DOE's main function is. Turns out it's a pretty hands-off agency, and shutting it down will mostly just harm kids with disabilities. Why we shut these agencies down is beyond me, but I guess it makes them look like they're doing something without going after the actual big fish, like our national "defense" apparatus. Oh no, there we're going to build a "golden dome". A very "efficient" one I'm sure.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#82

Post by croes »

stikit wrote: post #65
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

But the government owns the public working agencies.

If you fire people who are necessary you didn’t do your job as a employee.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#83

Post by hiddencost »

stikit wrote: post #65
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

Spoken like someone who hasn't yet discovered how expendable they are. Government should work for us, and reasonable quality of life should be a given.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#84

Post by wredcoll »

hattmall wrote: post #52
xyst wrote: post #18

It’s wild how America is just complacent with the destruction of the federal government. We see all of these red flags across the agencies yet there’s minimal uproar. I have seen a few protests (50501, recently) but nothing that stops this wanton destruction. - $6.6T sell off in market due to Orange administration trade war in just _2 days_ - USAID decimated - US trade partners lost - Federal agency head count losses…

For most people, particularly those who don't work in government. The federal government represents problems, aggravation, frustration and general resentment. Practically no one walks away from interactions with the federal government with a positive feeling. Dealing with the bureaucracy is generally awful. Most of the time you will go through several employees over the course of hours/days/weeks or even years and yo…

I mean, I feel like you might be aware of this, but what you're describing is literally PR and propaganda.

Many millions of people get social security/etc payments every month from the federal government, but of course that doesn't count. "Keep the gov out of my medicare!" anyone?

People have a real short memory and nobody appreciates the lack of mercury and arsenic in their sausages today, it's all about "what are you going to do tomorrow?"

I'm probably not cruel enough to do it but I wish every person who spoke like you just did would have to live a month or whatever without all of the benefits of the government.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#86

Post by lostlogin »

euroderf wrote: post #72
sollewitt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A beloved Terry Pratchett character defines evil as when you treat people like things.

Well then, that's pretty much an indictment of capitalism.

> an indictment of capitalism.

Capitalism is the least bad system we have tried.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#87

Post by yoyohello13 »

lostlogin wrote: post #86
euroderf wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, that's pretty much an indictment of capitalism.

> an indictment of capitalism. Capitalism is the least bad system we have tried.

Therefore we should never talk bad about it or look in to alternatives.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#88

Post by shadowgovt »

stikit wrote: post #65
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

While not owed a job for life, the arrangement of government as stable employer was a beneficial arrangement for the public: it let the government hold onto employees they might have otherwise had to pay more for their skillset because "If you're competent we won't fire you; our pockets are infinitely deep and we don't need to save money" was a perk.

Take that perk away, and now they have to compete on other things to find similarly-competent staff. Things like salary. Paid by your taxes.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#89

Post by apical_dendrite »

stikit wrote: post #65
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

I have trouble believing that someone at the level of a PI at NIH would just quit with no notice (unless there was some kind of misconduct and they decided to leave rather than get fired). They are running a lab. They direct all the projects that the lab is doing and they are ultimately responsible for all the grant funding. A PI quitting without notice would be incredibly disruptive to everyone else in the lab. I'm not sure how it works with NIH intramural research, but at a university or a hospital you'd have to figure out how to transfer any grants, what to do with equipment paid for by the grants, and what will happen to the grad students, postdocs, and everyone else in the lab. It would be incredibly irresponsible to leave suddenly without addressing those things.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#90

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

There's no methodology at work, it's just indiscriminate firings to cull as many people as possible.

This is clear from other other departments where they fired everyone they could.

"Coding error" is just a modern version of "the dog ate my homework". Lame but people will swallow it. They knew what they were doing, they just regret getting caught.

Sadly, once the firings, rehirings, refirings, court cases, and compensations are done, there won't be any money saved at all, probably more wasted.

That public servants do important work under less than ideal circumstances and funding is entirely ignored.

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