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Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

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Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#81

Post by dudefeliciano »

debottam_kundu wrote: post #64
InDubioProRubio wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>high value goods at home and provided high value services that couldn't be provided elsewhere. Eh, they were swiftly outcompeted in almost all fields, but protected that system of mercantilism, by disallowing their colonies to unload anything that was not flagged british. Monopolies work that way, they ruin things and are memorized in the empire center as "good times".. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/04161…

The wheel on the Indian flag is not a spinwheel[1], though it was proposed at some point in time before they got independence. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka_Chakra

Thanks for pointing that out. I knew this already, but if I didn't that would be exactly the kind of factoid that would stay stuck in my head for the next 30 years

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#82

Post by graemep »

refurb wrote: post #74
forgotoldacc wrote: post #13

A long time ago, Britain was the dominant economic power in the world. Britain had a massive trade deficit with India. It imported far more from India than it exported to India. But what Britain did was import massive amounts from India and made high value goods at home and provided high value services that couldn't be provided elsewhere. Should it have flipped the other way? In 1800, should Britain have suddenly shi…

> Britain had a massive trade deficit with India. Google tells this isn’t true. The UK actually had a massive trade surplus because it received cheap resources from India, then sold back high value items. All of this was controlled by strict trade rules.

Britain imported resources India which was a source of resources, which it then used to sell high value items globally.

I think the UK ran a deficit with India, but a surplus with (richer) countries that bought those high value items.

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#83

Post by mk89 »

mhogers wrote: post #47
forgotoldacc wrote: post #13

A long time ago, Britain was the dominant economic power in the world. Britain had a massive trade deficit with India. It imported far more from India than it exported to India. But what Britain did was import massive amounts from India and made high value goods at home and provided high value services that couldn't be provided elsewhere. Should it have flipped the other way? In 1800, should Britain have suddenly shi…

The t-shirt metaphor is completely unjust - there is no value there for national security nor strategic autonomy. Consider instead: - Semiconductor low-end fabrication (Taiwan, Korea) - Basic electronics: circuit boards, USB devices, .. (China) - Auto parts (Mexico, China, Germany) - Generic drugs (India, China) The reality is that the US is not the ultimate global hegemon anymore and therefore offshoring industries…

Come on, did you see the trade for goods and services deficit with EU? It's ludicrous. But hey, the president decided to focus only on goods. Why not on everything? Because it's unjustified. He needs money. A lot. And throwing out accusations at other countries is the only way he can get out of it fine. If he had just set a 10-15% tax on all imports "just because" people would have never approved. Now, on the other hand, look at those unfair European, Canadians, Mexicans, ... penguins :)

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#84

Post by mk89 »

tuna-piano wrote: post #79
mhogers wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The t-shirt metaphor is completely unjust - there is no value there for national security nor strategic autonomy. Consider instead: - Semiconductor low-end fabrication (Taiwan, Korea) - Basic electronics: circuit boards, USB devices, .. (China) - Auto parts (Mexico, China, Germany) - Generic drugs (India, China) The reality is that the US is not the ultimate global hegemon anymore and therefore offshoring industries…

What's funny is the tariffs announced a couple day sago explicitly excluded semi conductors and pharmaceuticals. We are literally about to tariff t-shirts but not those more strategic industries.

Because you need them, otherwise a car would cost you 3x.

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#85

Post by randyrand »

refurb wrote: post #67
randyrand wrote: post #28

The USA captures most of the value from selling iPhones worldwide, but yet the entire value of an iPhone counts only as a Chinese export. Something is not right with how we calculate these things.

That’s not true. Apple has internal transfer pricing which is dictated by accounting regulations and tax law. Companies try and set transfer prices to minimize local taxes, but need to follow regulations. A phone made in China is “purchased” by say Apple Canada for some fraction the price it sells for - regulation usually require the Value to reflect the cost of inputs. So Apple Canada might purchase a phone from App…

> yet the entire value of an iPhone counts only as a Chinese export.

> That’s not true.

You're right. It's not always the "entire" value paid by the consumer.

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#86

Post by unyttigfjelltol »

Warren's plan was to sell to exporting nations import credits (ICs) that are less fundamental than national bonds, and that diminish intergenerational unfairness from foreign real estate holdings. The proposal sounds like a gentle version of capital controls or outright bans on foreign land ownership, which US trading partners implemented.

The irony of course is that Warren is a leader of the very business community that struck this Faustian bargain, and he probably accumulated a fair quantity of land and bonds through exactly this process. He's basically pleading with politicians to change the math so he can make money a way that is better for the nation.

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#87

Post by textlapse »

forgotoldacc wrote: post #13

A long time ago, Britain was the dominant economic power in the world. Britain had a massive trade deficit with India. It imported far more from India than it exported to India. But what Britain did was import massive amounts from India and made high value goods at home and provided high value services that couldn't be provided elsewhere. Should it have flipped the other way? In 1800, should Britain have suddenly shi…

Britain was not importing. Britain was stealing resources from India. It was beyond slavery. The words plunder and pillage come to mind.

USA on the other hand has a completely different problem (perhaps opposite of what you describe - being the world’s gracious and benevolent trade partner).

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#89

Post by pyrale »

mhogers wrote: post #47
forgotoldacc wrote: post #13

A long time ago, Britain was the dominant economic power in the world. Britain had a massive trade deficit with India. It imported far more from India than it exported to India. But what Britain did was import massive amounts from India and made high value goods at home and provided high value services that couldn't be provided elsewhere. Should it have flipped the other way? In 1800, should Britain have suddenly shi…

The t-shirt metaphor is completely unjust - there is no value there for national security nor strategic autonomy. Consider instead: - Semiconductor low-end fabrication (Taiwan, Korea) - Basic electronics: circuit boards, USB devices, .. (China) - Auto parts (Mexico, China, Germany) - Generic drugs (India, China) The reality is that the US is not the ultimate global hegemon anymore and therefore offshoring industries…

So basically, you want everyone to depend on you, but you want to depend on no one.

And if a more balanced trade relation arises, your current leadership is willing to destabilize the whole world, and threaten war.

Re: Growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us (2003) [pdf]

#90

Post by graemep »

zabzonk wrote: post #9

Strange. I, as a UK citizen, don't seem to buy almost any physical USA goods at all.

As an individual you would own consumer goods.

A lot of international trade is other goods. Think of how much the UK has paid for things like American aircraft, ships, machinery, or materials used in manufacturing. Our armed forces use a lot of American stuff, and often even British made things have American parts (and a lot of it is covered by ITAR, to an even greater extent than the rest of Europe).

People also tend to hugely underestimate the amount of British manufacturing for the same reason, and because of lot of it is Foreign branded (e.g. Nissan cars).

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