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Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

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Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#81

Post by jaypinho »

tptacek wrote: post #77
jaypinho wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes no effort at all to see that CA HSR is an unmitigated disaster. It takes much more effort to figure out a coherent policy common denominator that shames CA for outsourcing the project to consultants while praising OWS for doing the same.

Klein notes that one project is a dismal failure and the other a stunning success. Both are true statements, and there's really nothing you can say to make that not true. The idea that there's a single coherent set of policy prescriptions that gets you reliably to the successes and away from the failures is exactly the thing Klein doesn't claim to be offering --- in fact, you open your review by complaining about exa…

Right. So then what is he offering?

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#82

Post by tptacek »

jaypinho wrote: post #80
tptacek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly does Marc Andreesen have to do with Klein and Thompson's advocacy for zoning reform? The answer to your question is simple. In fact, you dance around it in your review! The politics of reform are about navigating the disagreements in the Democratic coalition. Indeed! The point of the book is to present a positive vision of what a Democratic coalition focused around an agenda of demonstrated competency wo…

What does his podcast have to do with anything? I'm reviewing his book, not his entire bibliography. As I stated already, the vision is incoherent. It's fine to cherrypick specific anecdotes as examples of competent governance. But if, for example, one of the stories is about how outsourcing large infrastructure projects led to its demise while doing the same for a vaccine logistics project was the cause of its succe…

Why can't you answer the question I asked? It seems straightforward. And it's a point I made --- led off with, even --- in the original comment you replied to.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#83

Post by tptacek »

jaypinho wrote: post #81
tptacek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Klein notes that one project is a dismal failure and the other a stunning success. Both are true statements, and there's really nothing you can say to make that not true. The idea that there's a single coherent set of policy prescriptions that gets you reliably to the successes and away from the failures is exactly the thing Klein doesn't claim to be offering --- in fact, you open your review by complaining about exa…

Right. So then what is he offering?

A positive vision of the outcomes of a Democratic coalition that focuses on demonstrating competence and a willingness to build to suit the needs of its constituents: housing affordability in blue states, clean energy, modern transportation systems, new vaccines, &c.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#84

Post by jaypinho »

tptacek wrote: post #82
jaypinho wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does his podcast have to do with anything? I'm reviewing his book, not his entire bibliography. As I stated already, the vision is incoherent. It's fine to cherrypick specific anecdotes as examples of competent governance. But if, for example, one of the stories is about how outsourcing large infrastructure projects led to its demise while doing the same for a vaccine logistics project was the cause of its succe…

Why can't you answer the question I asked? It seems straightforward. And it's a point I made --- led off with, even --- in the original comment you replied to.

This is quite literally already explained in the review but I'll repeat it here. I used Andreessen's essay as a microcosm for the problem with Abundance: at the level of fuzzy, non-specific exhortations to "build," everyone can agree. Once you get into specifics, that's where the brass tacks are. In Andreessen's case, it means building is fine unless it's near his house. In Klein and Thompson's case, it's not even clear what they're proposing much of the time.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#85

Post by jaypinho »

jaypinho wrote: post #81
tptacek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Klein notes that one project is a dismal failure and the other a stunning success. Both are true statements, and there's really nothing you can say to make that not true. The idea that there's a single coherent set of policy prescriptions that gets you reliably to the successes and away from the failures is exactly the thing Klein doesn't claim to be offering --- in fact, you open your review by complaining about exa…

Right. So then what is he offering?

We have different definitions of "vision." My version implies some level of internal coherence.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#86

Post by tptacek »

jaypinho wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you answer the question I asked? It seems straightforward. And it's a point I made --- led off with, even --- in the original comment you replied to.

This is quite literally already explained in the review but I'll repeat it here. I used Andreessen's essay as a microcosm for the problem with Abundance: at the level of fuzzy, non-specific exhortations to "build," everyone can agree. Once you get into specifics, that's where the brass tacks are. In Andreessen's case, it means building is fine unless it's near his house. In Klein and Thompson's case, it's not even cl…

Is it your claim that Klein is unaware of the dynamic where people are sanguine about new housing being built anywhere but near their house? I feel like there's a name for that phenomenon. If that's not your claim, then I ask again, what was your point, other than to suggest that Klein's commitments are as artificial as Marc Andreesen's, someone who is in no way affiliated with Klein?

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#87

Post by tptacek »

jaypinho wrote: post #85
jaypinho wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. So then what is he offering?

We have different definitions of "vision." My version implies some level of internal coherence.

I've asked before and you didn't answer: can you identify anything in the book that Klein and Thompson are wrong about? Are we doing better deploying transportation than we think? Should we be more careful about where to site wind and solar, not less? Do we lean too heavily on private industry in the development of vaccines?

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#88

Post by jaypinho »

jaypinho wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't you answer the question I asked? It seems straightforward. And it's a point I made --- led off with, even --- in the original comment you replied to.

This is quite literally already explained in the review but I'll repeat it here. I used Andreessen's essay as a microcosm for the problem with Abundance: at the level of fuzzy, non-specific exhortations to "build," everyone can agree. Once you get into specifics, that's where the brass tacks are. In Andreessen's case, it means building is fine unless it's near his house. In Klein and Thompson's case, it's not even cl…

You know, you could always just read the review.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#89

Post by tptacek »

jaypinho wrote: post #88
jaypinho wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite literally already explained in the review but I'll repeat it here. I used Andreessen's essay as a microcosm for the problem with Abundance: at the level of fuzzy, non-specific exhortations to "build," everyone can agree. Once you get into specifics, that's where the brass tacks are. In Andreessen's case, it means building is fine unless it's near his house. In Klein and Thompson's case, it's not even cl…

You know, you could always just read the review.

Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

In this case, it might help to add some detail about what it is you think I may have missed.

Re: Move fast, break things: A review of Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

#90

Post by euroderf »

xnx wrote: post #54
davidw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a specific hearing that I attended where exactly that dynamic played out https://bendyimby.com/2024/04/16/the-hearing-and-the-housing... A room full of angry, wealthy, older people who showed up at 11AM on a weekday to stop homes for people who doubtless earn less than they do. And in that case, they were successful, sadly.

I'm conflicted. Who should be allowed to say what gets built in an area: the neighbors, the neighborhood, the city, the county, the state, the federal government?

I thought zoning was supposed to provide predictability, stability. So if you buy a house in an area zoned for denser stuff, don't whine when a building starts to go up.
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