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Startups: Stop Trying To Hire Ninja-Rockstar Engineers

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Re: Startups: Stop Trying To Hire Ninja-Rockstar Engineers

#81

Post by dsolomon »

jtbigwoo wrote: post #56
freyr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've got junior developers in the high $30K range That seems incredibly low, especially for a major metropolitan area. You must give great benefits.

It's not that surprising to me. My friends and I compared offers out of college and then didn't talk at all about salary for over a decade. A couple years ago, I started asking around when I was considering a job offer. I found out that we were making anywhere from 60k to 115k! We all had the same years of experience (~12 years). We all had different specialties, but that didn't really seem to matter. The guys who st…

5% raise - who's giving that much?

Corporate norms are 1.5% to 2.5% for the talented.

Re: Startups: Stop Trying To Hire Ninja-Rockstar Engineers

#82

Post by dsolomon »

vbtemp wrote: post #45
SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? Why wouldn't they move somewhere else then? They LIKE living in DC?

No, he's not serious. Actual salaries are double-to-triple what he's saying.

Sadly I am serious. It helps to explain our 150%+ turnover rate at 34 months into a 60 month contract, but high turnover is good for profits.

Re: Startups: Stop Trying To Hire Ninja-Rockstar Engineers

#83

Post by mindcrime »

codeonfire wrote: post #78
SatvikBeri wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's with the cynicism here? I've worked at at least two companies with a great train & promote from within culture, and heard of several more from my friends.

It's not cynicism, it's just logic and my observation of how several tech companies operate. It may seem great that a company would want to promote its novices, but the fact that it operates with novices doing the work precludes this. It's not economical to promote and pay more just for the sake of promotion. All they need are novices so why pay senior wages? Turnover does have some cost, so companies will either bai…

OK, I don't know what other companies do (or will do, or claim to do), but what I'm talking about, vis-a-vis the company I'm working on, is not a situation where we have "novices doing the work." We're definitely working on hard problems that require smart, experienced people. All I'm talking about, is having a mix of both very junior and very senior people, and then focus on adding senior people by helping the n00bs advance to that level over time.

This may have veered away from what original article was proposing, so I may be muddling the conversation here a bit.. but I definitely believe we can build a company that has a strong "promote from within" culture, that provides a very supporting environment that helps people grow, and provides a career path for technical people that doesn't require them to move into management in order to advance their careers.

It's not economical to promote and pay more just for the sake of promotion.

But you don't do it just for the sake of promotion... you do it to keep a person's compensation in line with the value they create and to stay competitive with the market. As people gain new knowledge and skills, and gain experience, they become more valuable.

Re: Startups: Stop Trying To Hire Ninja-Rockstar Engineers

#84

Post by div »

tocomment wrote: post #65
vbtemp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, 180K for any developer is high (hence the double-to-triple estimate). Not inconceivable for an architect or manager though in certain companies, which is a possible career path for any developer.

So how does a senior engineer graduate to architect?

He applies for an architect position at another company.

Re: Startups: Stop Trying To Hire Ninja-Rockstar Engineers

#85

Post by vbtemp »

dsolomon wrote: post #79
vbtemp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I'm in the DC area too, without clearance, the numbers you're throwing around are not realistic. Junior developers will start in the 50's-60's (with BS), usually 70-80 with MS, and seniors will generally be 110+... In the contractor sphere with clearances, it will be correspondingly higher. I do know that some agencies tried to give peanut wages to certain fresh-out-of-college students, but everyone I knew scof…

10+ years of working in the DC area supporting the Columbia customer, McLean customer and the Quantico customer for a variety of companies and still no one paying close to the rates you're claiming. It obvious you can't distinguish between the billing rate and a salary rate.

Ok, then enlighten me. Are you claiming that an average dev in your business will make high 30's before tax?

Re: Startups: Stop Trying To Hire Ninja-Rockstar Engineers

#86

Post by dsolomon »

vbtemp wrote: post #85
dsolomon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10+ years of working in the DC area supporting the Columbia customer, McLean customer and the Quantico customer for a variety of companies and still no one paying close to the rates you're claiming. It obvious you can't distinguish between the billing rate and a salary rate.

Ok, then enlighten me. Are you claiming that an average dev in your business will make high 30's before tax?

Yes. We have some on sight, for a government agency, as part of a government contract, for which we are the prime.

Additionally, we've taken people from help desk, put them on the server team, then placed them doing host based security and paid them upper 40's (before taxes).

Clearance level is TS.

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