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Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

theguardian.com

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Re: Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

#81

Post by BobaFloutist »

FilosofumRex wrote: post #26
drivingmenuts wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious institutions should only be supported by voluntary contributions from those who believe in its mission. No state should ever give money to a religious institution, for any reason, because no state should favor one religion over another. To do so leads to religious authoritarianism, which is a direct precursor to religious segregation and persecution. Money given to the state should only be used for purposes…

Secularism/atheism is a religion too. It has dogmas on abortion, homosexuality, fornication, usury, adultery, education of children, and hatred towards other religions (as shown by you).

But it doesn't have remotely the same religious protections as theism.

Re: Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

#82

Post by jauntywundrkind »

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #13
OgsyedIE wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody on the other political side, I wouldn't want federal tax dollars going to mormon universities in a vacuum. To prevent more culture war distractions from the faculty's jobs of teaching, I think anybody who can do math can agree that: Either every university should get subsidies proportional to the effectiveness of their graduates or no universities should get any subsidies at all.

what about every university should get subsidies per student's head-count and let the universities decide what for the money is used? The market will regulate the demand & supply of places and the universities have an incentive to grow and to attract students by quality. If its mormon-university and mormonism happens to be in big-demand, so then its a mormon university that gets subsidies. At least, its in europe mos…

I might maybe perhaps be willing to consider this if we revoke the tax exempt status of religious institutions. Maybe. I still doubt it.

Re: Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

#83

Post by BrandoElFollito »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #82
theGeatZhopa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about every university should get subsidies per student's head-count and let the universities decide what for the money is used? The market will regulate the demand & supply of places and the universities have an incentive to grow and to attract students by quality. If its mormon-university and mormonism happens to be in big-demand, so then its a mormon university that gets subsidies. At least, its in europe mos…

I might maybe perhaps be willing to consider this if we revoke the tax exempt status of religious institutions. Maybe. I still doubt it.

Religion is a cultural and historical construction and part of our life. There are constructions such as churches that are part if a country history.

The state supports, say, history teaching so religious artefacts should be partly financed by the state.

Which ones is the question.

Note: I am French, profoundly atheist and actively anti religion. But I love yhe culture and thus the history of my country.

Re: Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

#84

Post by aaplok »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #75
aaplok wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> historically no one considers 1923 America to be fascist. Many scholars consider that Nazism was greatly inspired by American racism. Calling 1923 America fascist would be anachronistic, but also American racist policies were less related to Italian fascism than to Nazi doctrines. But plenty of scholars make the connection. Here is an example: [0]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-American-Model-United-States/...

If you do a poll of people who call current events fascist and ask them if America was fascist in 1923 or 1945, I’m quite confident that upwards of 95% of respondents would say no to both. Do you disagree? I’m commenting on the apparent worldview contradiction or blind spot in people who are calling current events and people fascist.

That would only show that people are ignorant of the past and influenced by what is called the national myth [0], not necessarily that their definition of fascism has changed.

To return your argument, if you poll people who call current events fascists and ask them if that 1923 Supreme court decision is fascist, would you be as confident that 95% would say it's not?

That people's view of fascism has changed after world war 2 is obvious and not particularity insightful. So has their view of antisemitism for instance.

I also should add that I agree with you on the great danger of labeling too many things fascists, including the current events. It is entirely possible to oppose Trump's second term and even think that it is a threat to democracy without resorting to calling it fascist. It is also possible to compare it with the rise of fascist regimes if one provides appropriate arguments.

I just don't think that your example with 1920s America illustrates that point particularly well.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_myth

Re: Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

#86

Post by theGeatZhopa »

ffsm8 wrote: post #71
theGeatZhopa wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have a point with it's better to pay for results. But that lead to an chicken-egg-problem. Without chicken no eggs and without eggs no chickens. So, how to achieve good results, if they are needed upfront to get subsidies and subsidies are needed to offer opportunities to achieve results? It's not always better to pay for results. Paying for effort would also allow the headcount and university size to be regu…

I don't think that's a logical conclusion, just from looking at your argument. Universities are pretty much always basically regional-monopolies, while it's true that not every university gets the same amount of applicants, I don't think they're struggling to get students altogether? But I'm not American, so maybe it's different in the USA? If it's not different in the US, then this kind of subsidy is much worse then…

Ok, I see your point. You may have an argument here :)

Re: Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

#87

Post by ffsm8 »

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #86
ffsm8 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a logical conclusion, just from looking at your argument. Universities are pretty much always basically regional-monopolies, while it's true that not every university gets the same amount of applicants, I don't think they're struggling to get students altogether? But I'm not American, so maybe it's different in the USA? If it's not different in the US, then this kind of subsidy is much worse then…

Ok, I see your point. You may have an argument here :)

The best option is likely a combination of both, a minor payout per head to provide the baseline and then the bulk via results. But hey, we're all just random armchair pundits speculation on things they have no ability to influence ◉ ‿ ◉

Re: Yale professor who studies fascism fleeing US to work in Canada

#88

Post by MengerSponge »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #48
MengerSponge wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1923 Germany wasn't fascist either. 1933 Germany, for what it's worth, liked a lot of things about 1923 America. Nazi eugenics grew from American ideas.

1923 Germany not being fascist is irrelevant to my point. My point is that during the time period where USA was considered fascist-fighting heroes according to the mainstream account, they themselves had many views that were considered normal back then but strongly “fascist” today. I guess the definition of fascist must have changed?

Fascism and white supremacy aren't interchangeable terms. The formal definition has refined, although the colloquial usage hasn't kept up.

Check out this summary of Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism essay, with 14 characteristics of fascist movements/regimes.

https://www.openculture.com/2024/11/umberto-ecos-list-of-the...

Like many diagnostic criteria, it's not sufficient to only check one or two of the boxes. It's also worth being honest and examining the aspects of American culture that have made it particularly susceptible to fascism.

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