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The Burnout Machine

unionize.fyi

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#81

Post by geodel »

jegp wrote: post #19

As an outsider, I'm astounded why workers aren't unionizing to a much higher degree. It's been proven to work [1] against the misinformation, discord, and wealth inequality that companies will, inevitably, cause. Despite the small union fee, the individual clearly stands to benefit[1]. Is it because people are cheap? Or not familiar with history? You'd think that tech workers were quite informed. [1]: https://nordics…

Maybe you will be less astounded if you read more about how large countries in terms of areas, population, ethnicities, immigrants have people with different and sometimes conflicting motivations about work conditions.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#82

Post by rco8786 »

> You know the pitch - beanbags in the office, free kombucha on tap, and "Agile" processes that are supposed to make everything more flexible, more efficient

No offense, but was this written a decade ago? All of that stuff is long, long gone.

> demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion."

Not my experience at all. From startups to big tech/FAANG, silicon valley and otherwise. Never been asked for an 80 hour week, nor seen anyone work one. I can count on one hand the times that a manager has explicitly asked me to work late in the 16 years I've been doing this professionally.

> If you’re not pulling all-nighters, you’re "not committed."

Not reality.

> If you’re not answering Slack messages at midnight, you’re "not a team player."

Not reality.

> This culture is toxic, and it’s only getting worse.

By what measure?

> this industry is not your friend. It’s a machine, and unless we start organizing, it’s going to keep grinding us down. It’s time to talk about unionizing tech jobs.

And yet, I'm still all for this. I just don't appreciate the silly hyperbole about the state of the world.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#83

Post by rockemsockem »

umvi wrote: post #40

How many tech jobs are 80 hours a week? My work life balance is pretty good at a smaller tech company, so is it the FAANG jobs expecting 80 hour weeks?

I've never heard of hours like that outside of early high-growth startups. Have worked at FAANG and know many people who've worked at many of the FAANG companies.

Seems made up tbh

Re: The Burnout Machine

#84

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #58
film42 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Show me examples of teams who took that bet and how it paid off.

Are you working 7 days a week in horrific circumstances? Do you have children as your colleagues? No? That’s due to unions and labourers fighting for the rights you currently have.

IMO that's a pretty irrelevant example when it comes to today's tech unions and ignores the thrust of the commenter's question.

Yes, unions were responsible for changing the factory working culture in the past. But I know tons of people that work in tech jobs now that have to be some the cushiest jobs in the history of the planet. Yes, there is stress, not a lot of job security, and the standard corporate BS, but tech employees are generally paid quite well with great perks (obviously, depending on the company). The people who work at these companies aren't accidentally falling into vats at meat processing plants a la The Jungle, so unions need to convince them what the benefit would be to them now.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#85

Post by whoisthemachine »

sophacles wrote: post #65
legitster wrote: post #34

This write up sounds like it describes a very particular subset of companies. If you only want to work at the flashy unicorns in downtown San Francisco, you are signing yourself up for exploitation. Like any career, if you get off the beaten path there are plenty of pretty okay jobs out there. Especially if you have a marketable skill. This is software, if you have a brain and functional hands - you already own the m…

A union doesn't have to be "workers for company X employees". It can be "web developers union" or similar - this is how the trades organize (see the pipefitters, and IBEW for some examples). Neat thing about this type of organizing is that the union provides training and standardization paths. Both of those make moving between jobs easier. They can also provide a standardized way of differentiating employee levels (e…

I quite like the idea of a trade union or accreditation board for SWE. The idea that we all work by a shared set of standards and terminology is appealing.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#86

Post by jakelazaroff »

geodel wrote: post #46
jakelazaroff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is the idea that there’s something that can magically solve all your problems. If you believe in panaceas, everything will disappoint you. Unions are a tool , and tools have tradeoffs. They will be able to solve some of your problems — most importantly, the power imbalance between employer and employee — and introduce new ones you didn’t have before. The bet is that if we collectively use unions correctly,…

> The bet is that if we collectively use unions correctly, This sounds awfully similar to when people were holding their iPhones wrong .

Let me put it this way. If a rowing team spends their time infighting rather than coordinating, they’ll find it difficult to make progress even though they can in theory move very fast.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#87

Post by heraldgeezer »

film42 wrote: post #11

I think unions need to work on their marketing. I resonate with all of these problems, but the "fixes" sound like a politician saying, "elect me and I'll solve your problems." What's the A+ example out there of a unionized engineering team that has been able to find a great work-life balance, great benefits, and a fun product development life-cycle that is profitable or clearly on its way to profitability? Show me th…

In Sweden, devs and IT can just join the office worker union...

https://www.unionen.se/in-english/this-is-unionen

It helps because at the end of the day you are just an excel sheet with numbers to your employer.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#88

Post by shagie »

film42 wrote: post #67
test098 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IFPTE, UAW, CWA (which just recently welcomed workers in the video game industry: https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/video-game-workers-launc... )

Forming the union is step one of a long road before you actually reap the benefits. It can take year(s) to negotiate the CBA with your employer. Sounds like fear of layoffs was a huge factor, but the employer must agree to those terms, and that remains to be seen. So for now that's all rhetoric. Show me a team that has gotten to the other side with these terms in a contract.

https://kickstarterunited.org/first-contract/

Re: The Burnout Machine

#90

Post by test098 »

film42 wrote: post #67
test098 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IFPTE, UAW, CWA (which just recently welcomed workers in the video game industry: https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/video-game-workers-launc... )

Forming the union is step one of a long road before you actually reap the benefits. It can take year(s) to negotiate the CBA with your employer. Sounds like fear of layoffs was a huge factor, but the employer must agree to those terms, and that remains to be seen. So for now that's all rhetoric. Show me a team that has gotten to the other side with these terms in a contract.

the Riot Games union is bargaining for better pay and less brutal working hours. at Blizzard they did employee walkouts, leading to better pay and changes in work culture. at Kickstarter they negotiated better remote work policies and reduction of discriminatory actions.
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