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The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

microsoft.com

81–90 of 109 posts

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#81
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the unique angle on this that puts it in the same genre as the worries over new technology intersecting with ancient human ills that have vexed philosophers since the introduction of writing? So you've responded and not addressed any of the concern outlined, instead providing personal justification and musings but not engaging in the actual question. The cherry on top is your personal exchange at the end. Aw…

I assumed your misread and mischaracterization wasn't with ill intent since I could have worded that better, ignored it aside from the clarifying edit, and focused on the bit that was interesting.

It was my opinion, as stated. Your response was not part of the conversation but instead stream of thought with no relation to my response to you. Given this needed to be explained I'm not too surprised you were blocked. Enjoy!

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#82
post #23

People are worried AI is making us dumber. You hear it all the time. GPS wrecked our sense of direction. Spellcheck killed spelling. Now it’s AI’s turn to supposedly rot our brains. It’s the same old story. New tool comes along, people freak out about what we’re “losing.” But they’re missing the point. It’s never about losing skills, it’s about shifting them. And usually, the shift is upwards. Take GPS. Yeah, okay, m…

This assumes you always have reliable GPS: - areas that lack map details and obstructions that preclude straight line paths, e.g. deep forest - wartime GPS blocking - device failure incl battery - errors in mapping data - maps that contain other information not found in your GPS-enabled map

Like it or not, you live in an industrial society that depends on a million things you can not possibly recplicate or repair if they fail.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#83
post #27

People are worried AI is making us dumber. You hear it all the time. GPS wrecked our sense of direction. Spellcheck killed spelling. Now it’s AI’s turn to supposedly rot our brains. It’s the same old story. New tool comes along, people freak out about what we’re “losing.” But they’re missing the point. It’s never about losing skills, it’s about shifting them. And usually, the shift is upwards. Take GPS. Yeah, okay, m…

> so we can focus on what humans are actually good at You know what humans are good at? Deluding ourselves. Because that's what you're doing. Using vague, feel-good words, based on vague analogies, no proof, to keep the inconvenient truth at bay. Not being able to navigate with a paper map is a big thing: people get lost inside buildings without a map. Next time the power fails, half of the GenZ will be lost. Not bei…

GPS still works when power fails.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After watching [Oxford Researchers Discover How to Use AI to Learn Like a Genius]( https://youtu.be/TPLPpz6dD3A?si=FJJ-S6wz0PPrJuSn ) a few days ago, I've been using ChatGPT in "reverse mode" a lot. I give it a excerpt of a text I'm reading and ask it to ask me questions from it at different levels of detail. I have to say it feels like a superpower! The answers to questions that you needed to supply really stick on…

This is exactly the use case I’ve been thinking about, so thank you for linking this video. What I want is for my ereader to feed the text I just read into a good LLM and then quiz me on what I read. What’s kind of funny is that I hated homework as a kid, now I’m basically begging for a computer to give me some

Yes, agreed.

It would be good if some spaced repetition was thrown into the mix as well.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#85
post #80
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can either spent 20 minutes arguing with an LLM to get something that maybe does most of what I want, or spend those 25 minutes to get something n that does exactly what I want. I wouldn’t call those 5 minutes times wasted

Or you could learn to use an LLM for what is it good at so that it actually saves you time (arguing with an LLM for a long time a sure sign of not having a lot of experience with this tool..)

A turn of phrase ;-) I spent thousands of hours working with closely with LLMs. It took me a lot longer than it should have to realize they were slowing me down, not speeding me up.

I’ll ask the off question here and there, they can be good search engines, but realistically if my time with the LLM can be categorized as “reviewing code,” it would be a waste of my time.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#86

I think this study does not say what most people are taking it to say. > our research questions - when and how knowledge workers perceive the enaction of critical thinking when using GenAI (RQ1), and when and why do knowledge workers perceive increased/decreased effort for critical thinking due to GenAI (RQ2) This is about the application of critical thinking to AI outputs and in AI workflows. Are people cognitively…

The study is basically just... a bunch of self-reports on how people feel about AI usage in their daily job. That's it. The "critical thinking" part is completely self-reported. It's not "how good a person is at critical thinking." It's "how much a person feels they engages in critical thinking." Keyword: feels. It's like all the nutrition studies where they ask people to self-report what they eat.

No control group, sample is too small, self selected...Researchers should be ashamed and their institutions too...

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#87
personal related example: my 12 year old son is a terrible speller; whenever I've tried to encourage him to improve in it, he's like "why do I need to know how to spell, I just use grammarly".

And so we raise a next generation who grow up with AI and see no more value in learning a host of knowledge skills.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#88
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The study is basically just... a bunch of self-reports on how people feel about AI usage in their daily job. That's it. The "critical thinking" part is completely self-reported. It's not "how good a person is at critical thinking." It's "how much a person feels they engages in critical thinking." Keyword: feels. It's like all the nutrition studies where they ask people to self-report what they eat.

No control group, sample is too small, self selected...Researchers should be ashamed and their institutions too...

Was pretty valuable for me to read. I don’t like using llms much for coding because the shift is from creating a solution to verify a solution. This paper helped articulate that. Plus it’s still useful data if you understand what the data is

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#89
post #85
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could learn to use an LLM for what is it good at so that it actually saves you time (arguing with an LLM for a long time a sure sign of not having a lot of experience with this tool..)

A turn of phrase ;-) I spent thousands of hours working with closely with LLMs. It took me a lot longer than it should have to realize they were slowing me down, not speeding me up. I’ll ask the off question here and there, they can be good search engines, but realistically if my time with the LLM can be categorized as “reviewing code,” it would be a waste of my time.

Fair enough, I guess as with all tools YMMV and things depend on the kind of work. I also have days where I have no use for them.

Re: The Impact of Generative AI on Critical Thinking [pdf]

#90

People are worried AI is making us dumber. You hear it all the time. GPS wrecked our sense of direction. Spellcheck killed spelling. Now it’s AI’s turn to supposedly rot our brains. It’s the same old story. New tool comes along, people freak out about what we’re “losing.” But they’re missing the point. It’s never about losing skills, it’s about shifting them. And usually, the shift is upwards. Take GPS. Yeah, okay, m…

I've thought the same way you did, how people are resistant to change, but eventually it's better for everybody.

I do believe that GPS made people worse drivers. It made it so people lost sense of direction and distance. It has removed all critical thinking on the road. Plenty of stories where people drive over stairs because the GPS told them so.

From a driver's ability to navigate, I don't think you can do more now with GPS than you can before with a map. It surely has made it easier, but at a significant cost.

Now, of course, there are plenty of benefits, such as reducing time when getting somewhere unknown (e.g. ambulances), planes not flying over hostile territory (mostly), ability to be able to tell someone where you are when there no landmarks around etc.

But the reality is that overall, a mistake of a GPS is usually rather localized, and the cost of the mistake is rather low.

Books are interesting, instead of memorizing details we now memorize where to find information, little bits that help us get to the solution of the problem we're solving. But books themselves haven't replaced memory, otherwise no-one would read them anymore ahead of time.

When we search something on the internet we are thought to apply critical thinking. What are the sources? [0]. But GPS? Just go with it.

And AI is more like GPS than it is like books. We are being taught take it at face value, and to abandon critical thinking for the sake of speed. Worse yet, because of the enormous financial investments of companies, there is an incentive to lie about how useable it is.

I'm not even talking about context windows. I'm talking about the endless minutia of languages, frameworks, and changes related to specific versions that you only learn by doing. Just the same way a resident does not become a doctor until they finish residency. They have to have done the work, and applied critical thinking.

Software Engineering does not have such legal requirements, but we all learn on the job. AI, and the companies pushing for it basically tell potential clients that this is no longer needed. Would you want a gallbladder surgery done by someone who just read a Wikipedia page about it?

Now, a seasoned developer who writes a crystal clear prompt will probably pick up on bugs, and tell the AI that they want edge cases A, B and C considered. But how did they learn that those exist? Right. By hitting the issues.

Something that happens a lot in Software Engineer, due to the massive amount of things out there and no fixed specs/docs/etcs, is that your approach changes when you're developing a solution for a problem. But the need for those changes only become apparent when you're writing and testing code.

You literally cannot front-load that into your prompt. Yet, reading the news here, we see that our future is writing prompts for a much lower wage. This is orthogonal as to why I went into Software Engineering. Prompts rob me of the ability to express something in an extremely well defined language. Clarity of rules. A syntax where you can express something without ambiguity [1].

You don't know what you don't know, meaning you can't prompt for what you don't know. Hence why they brought back a whole bunch of people out of retirement to build new manpads.

[0] Interestingly when I was growing up a book quote was ok, but Wikipedia was not, even though it came from a book. That now definitely has changed.

[1] A wife sends her programmer husband to the grocery store for a loaf of bread... On his way out she says "and if they have eggs, get a dozen". The programmer husband returns home with 12 loaves of bread....

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