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We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

lore.kernel.org

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Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#81

Post by mindslight »

Drofus wrote: post #68
MyOutfitIsVague wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a left winger, and I generally respect the police, but everybody I've met with a "thin blue line" American flag decal or sticker has been a total asshole. It's not just hatred of the police. Connotations change over time, and the general connotation of "the thin blue line" in the US at the moment is unabashed support of far-right authoritarianism.

[flagged]

The problem with neofascism certainly isn't a lack of hate. It's more like the lack of consistency in applying principles, or the unwillingness to generalize beyond the current target.

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#82

Post by caspper69 »

Drofus wrote: post #68
MyOutfitIsVague wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a left winger, and I generally respect the police, but everybody I've met with a "thin blue line" American flag decal or sticker has been a total asshole. It's not just hatred of the police. Connotations change over time, and the general connotation of "the thin blue line" in the US at the moment is unabashed support of far-right authoritarianism.

[flagged]

That’s not surprising at all.

You hate everybody, lol.

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#83

Post by numbsafari »

reactordev wrote: post #9

The problem is aging code sours like milk. I empathize but we need to have people take over these initiatives and refactor them into something easier the maintain. Not saying introduce a new language or anything but change how we fundamentally look at “The Kernel”. I think reducing scope and making it so hardware providers must maintain their drivers is a good start. If your toolchain doesn’t suffice, create a new to…

> making it so hardware providers must maintain their drivers is a good start

How do you propose that happens?

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#84

Post by skrtskrt »

chris_wot wrote: post #70

I would be more likely to want to listen to T'so if he hadn't done the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiPp9YEBV0Q&t=1529s There was a reasonable discussion about Rust, and then T'so drops the bombshell: "I suspect part of the problem here is you're trying to convince everyone to switch over to the religion as promulgated by Rust and the reality is that ain't going to happen because we have 50 plus file sy…

yeah he managed to try to sound reasonable and measured for most of that, then:

> including an upstream language community which refuses to make any kind of backwards compatibility guarantees, and which is actively hostile to a second Rust compiler implementation (I suspect because it might limit their ability to make arbitrary backwards-incompatble language changes).

with the full context of all of this it is quite obvious this is just a classic case of a software engineer being an antisocial jerk with strange vendettas in their head and who thinks the strange personal opinions they came up with in their basement are unassailable facts

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#85

Post by skrtskrt »

veidr wrote: post #64
micromacrofoot wrote: post #8

not the phrase I'd choose to associate with, even metaphorically

This phrase has been largely co-opted by US white nationalist/fascist groups (similar to how Pepe the Frog was) but that is a relatively recent development; the phrase has been in use for a long time before that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line

it's not that recent that it's a very negative term - the wiki even says the usage with regards to covering up police crimes dates back to the 70s

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#86

Post by muamoe »

dralley wrote: post #61
patrick451 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The new-school guys want to make things better in a new way. The new guys definitely want to make things different, but it seems there is a lot of debate over whether it will actually be better. Really, they should just write their own their kernel. If rust is really that much better, they'll will.

There are already kernels written in Rust. Telling them to go write new kernels in Rust is like telling people working on a new audio workstation that they should write a package manager instead. A new kernel that they cannot practically use does not suit their needs. The point is to use Rust where it can suit their needs.

Why are they entitled to the existing kernel? By what right?

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#87

Post by liveoneggs »

llm_trw wrote: post #32
Diggsey wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong, but he hasn't addressed the problem: Some maintainers are rejecting changes as a way to block a project they disagree with - ie. there is no path forward for the contributor. I wouldn't assume this normally, but they're not hiding this fact, it's self proclaimed. On the other hand, Linus has been largely in favour of the R4L project, and gave the green light for it to go ahead. The Linux kernel mainta…

It's not the maintainers job to make your project happen. It's yours. If you need someone to do free work but you can't convince them then you either get their boss to tell them to do it, you take over their job, or - the one thing that no one under 30 ever seems to do - fork and do the work yourself without anyone stopping you.

I agree with you completely. If rust is so great why not make a new kernel with it and compete? or fork and start rewriting subsystems?

I do also understand the frustration when an open source project strings you along (me: can I join your club?), ask for this and that (them: sure if you pay your dues), ensuring your cover every "important" person's pet use case (them: and also buy us lunch), then publicly snark about the whole thing (them: this new guy know about no mustard on the lunch!) and kill your failing motivation (me: oh, sorry).

That's why the fork is so appealing. If it's good enough for long enough you get to join the club.

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#88

Post by o11c »

paulddraper wrote: post #78
krapp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capital. Within capitalist societies police protect the interests of the state, which itself exists to serve and benefit the capitalist class. Police "maintain order" to ensure the proletariat continues to submit to the state and participate in the capitalist machine, and they commit violence against anyone who does otherwise.

Bro, just don't rob CVS

Also don't ever jog down the street.

In fact, don't even sleep inside your own home!

Re: We are the "thin blue line" that is trying to keep the code high quality

#90

Post by posting3fasy »

jdlshore wrote: post #21
theden wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, and the reference _is_ politically loaded ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_blue_line ): >The thin blue line U.S. flag has been banned by some police departments in the United States for its associations with ideologies described as "undemocratic, racist, and bigoted." >According to a 2018 law review article, "thin blue line" also refers to an unwritten code of silence used to cover up police mis…

Seems like ignorance of the implications, not any desire to a tie themselves to a political stance. I think the “assume positive intent” principle needs to apply here.

[flagged]
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