EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
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Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#82It's a good thing that EU leadership is finally waking up to the urgency of renewed competitiveness, but the greatest problems are not addressed or even mentioned: 1. Europe's most ambitious entrepreneurs leave for silicon valley because audacious ambition is heavily discouraged culturally. Europe has many talented engineers and many founders who aim for "reasonable" success, but that's really not sufficient. 2. Big…
Your analysis points out some real problems, but I think they are more systemic rather than just cultural. (This is not to say that the cultural issues are not real) 1. Startups mostly leave because Europe doesn not have a private capital ecosystem and hence entrepreneurs can not get sufficient funding for growth. 2. There is some truth to this statement in the sense that some people have this mentality but is not tr…
2. There are moderately profitable companies in Europe, and most of them were founded 40 years ago. With regard to the data I think you've got cause and effect reversed. The capital market is smaller because EU startups get out-competed badly. Startups are winner-takes-all. No prizes for 4th place.
3. It's simply not true that subsidies necessarily favor incumbents. Governments are free to structure their subsidies however they like.
Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#83I am urprised how much money suddenly is available where other future-critical projects are starved of funding while needing just a fraction of that amount, specifically nuclear fusion.
It's the same in the UK. Pensioners had their heating allowance removed to plug a £22 bn 'black hole', whilst tonnes of money is pledged to AI. I can imagine the EU is in a similar state.
There was also the plan go give the Chagos islands to a country that is ~2000km away and pay them billions for the privilege of using them.
There is always money to chase newspaper headlines.
Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that's what the arms manufacturers want. Let's not do (much of) that.
why not? we’ll be throwing rainbow flags at Russians when they decide to invade?
There is no threat from Russia, as Ukraine certainly isn't part of EU and Russia has never shown hostility to EU, except in retaliation from EU hostile acts.
So I would agree we need to become capable of defending ourselves, but to do so we should very quickly normalize and reestablish friendly relations with Russia and China, then make ourselves economically independent from the USA, ask them to remove all of their military bases from EU, and start to produce our own weapons.
Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#85Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don’t understand Europe, why don’t they just focus on hyper growth with limited oversight like America? Well, you've kind of answered it yourself, because the EU is not America. It's an economic and political union formed of very different countries with diverse interests, though those interests primarily are centered around the individual and their rights, and not the corporations' profits, like America is. And…
Oh please not this again. You think the EU cares about it's citizens rights when it's been trying for the last 3 years to pass the Chat Control law in order to read all your emails, text messages, analyze all your photos and basically treat you as criminal without having any recourse about it? Is this the kind of rights we are talking about just to be clear?
Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the spirit of HN rules, actual answering instead of snark: 1. The memory of Nazis using centralised industrial might and information to kill millions of people (google dutch insurance records Nazis) 2.a much stronger history of workers rights and distrust of rich people together with a different attitude to gouvernement making it politically challenging Can hate it or love it, but the median life expectancy in Eur…
No offence but those arguments are all silly. >1. The memory of Nazis using centralised industrial might and information to kill millions of people (google dutch insurance records Nazis) We can't stop developing and using modern technology just because one time in the past modern technology was used to kill people. Imagine if prehistoric humans stopped using fire because one time some retard burned down the village,…
I don't want to get too Hitler ad reductio, but that's probably what the Nazis thought too. It hasn't even been a 100 years since this all happened man. It's only sociopaths that constantly play up the past is the past nonsense. There's an incredible bravado to it. It's not the past, it was barely yesterday. The only thing I'll grant you is that its probably not happening again only because in the grand time line, less than 100 years is pretty much still happening, we're still INSIDE the chaos of ww2 and nazism. The same way we are all still inside the big bang, expanding outward.
But yes, sociopaths need to forget this, similar to how they need to forget an affair or a crime. It is what it is.
Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
No offence but those arguments are all silly. >1. The memory of Nazis using centralised industrial might and information to kill millions of people (google dutch insurance records Nazis) We can't stop developing and using modern technology just because one time in the past modern technology was used to kill people. Imagine if prehistoric humans stopped using fire because one time some retard burned down the village,…
Most normal people don't think of the Nazi atrocities at every decision they make in life, most people think about the problems we have right now. I don't want to get too Hitler ad reductio, but that's probably what the Nazis thought too. It hasn't even been a 100 years since this all happened man. It's only sociopaths that constantly play up the past is the past nonsense. There's an incredible bravado to it. It's no…
Nazis though about a lot of things, like investing in infrastructure. Is everyone who invests in infrastructure now a concern because they're doing something the Nazis did? People who can't critically think and dethatch the actions from the group and resort to blindly putting people into boxes based on superficial things taken out of context are unwell.
> It's only sociopaths that constantly play up the past is the past nonsense.
Wrong. It's the enlightened pragmatists and realists who want the world to progres instead of wasting efforts squabbling over past events that do that, while it's the sociopaths that constantly want people to live with the guilt of the original sin because that's easy emotional manipulation for the masses to push them towards an agenda, which is why politicians keep bridging up the past national glories and traumas in their speeches.
Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most normal people don't think of the Nazi atrocities at every decision they make in life, most people think about the problems we have right now. I don't want to get too Hitler ad reductio, but that's probably what the Nazis thought too. It hasn't even been a 100 years since this all happened man. It's only sociopaths that constantly play up the past is the past nonsense. There's an incredible bravado to it. It's no…
> that's probably what the Nazis thought too Nazis though about a lot of things, like investing in infrastructure. Is everyone who invests in infrastructure now a concern because they're doing something the Nazis did? People who can't critically think and dethatch the actions from the group and resort to blindly putting people into boxes based on superficial things taken out of context are unwell. > It's only sociopa…
Some Beavers are nazis that build Dams. Infrastructure they call it.
Not all Beavers are nazis. Not all Dams are Nazi Beaver projects. I get you, I really do. But I’m going to pay attention anyway.
Re: EU to mobilize 200B Euros to invest in AI
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your analysis points out some real problems, but I think they are more systemic rather than just cultural. (This is not to say that the cultural issues are not real) 1. Startups mostly leave because Europe doesn not have a private capital ecosystem and hence entrepreneurs can not get sufficient funding for growth. 2. There is some truth to this statement in the sense that some people have this mentality but is not tr…
1. There is no shortage of startup capital in Europe. European VC funding is almost half of US venture funding. Startup funding in Europe just doesn't produce big winners. 2. There are moderately profitable companies in Europe, and most of them were founded 40 years ago. With regard to the data I think you've got cause and effect reversed. The capital market is smaller because EU startups get out-competed badly. Star…
1. There is no European VC market. This is important. When people talk about EU VC funding they are just adding together national numbers. In reality EU countries have seperate capital markets with different rules serving seperate national markets - when it comes to services there is no single market. This means none of the European markets come close to having the scale of the Chinese or American ecosystems.
Even though the amount of VC funding of the EU as a whole may seem to be of similar order of magnitude, being around 1/3rd of US VC (although as I wrote above, this is a virtual number) there are several important differences. About two-thirds of European funding is provided by governments or (risk-averse) banks, whereas about two-thirds of US finding is from private sources that are comfortable with higher risks and long periods of unprofitable money shoveling (see Amazon, Uber, Tesla).
Furthermore, there is a large difference in the size of funding (about 5x bigger in the US per company) and the amount of it being for late stage growth (very little in the EU). These are big barriers to creating 'big winners' in winner-takes-all markets.
You raise a valid question about the direction of causality here. It could be that European companies are just inefficient because they are overburdened by regulation, and investors know this. I think that is probably partly the case, and definitely in some sectors.
However, there is some evidence that regulatory burden and productivity are currently not the limiting factor. First of all there is quite a lot of diversity in regulatory burden and productivity between countries in Europe. But regularitory burden and productivity does not seem to correlate much with the size of the startup markets in Europe. The biggest startup markets are found in the capitals of the countries with the biggest markets (Germany, France and the UK). These countries are not known for being particularly business friendly or efficiënt, but they are the biggest countries. It seems likely that network effects and market scale are dominant forces here.
Indeed, it seems that the higher cost and complexity of having to scale internationally across different regulatory domains are a bigger problem for potential European big winners. A company that wins scaling in the US dominates the biggest market in the world and is likely to be the global winner. National big winners in Europe do not have the size to compete, unlike those in China. And establishing Europe-wide winners is difficult.
(In fact, it is mainly European business that push for moving regulation from the national to the European level, precisely to make Europe-wide activity easier)
One more piece of evidence is that the US VC ecosystem is centred in SF, California, probably the place in the US most burdened by regulation. They even suffer from a GDPR-light.
2. The big correlate for profits is size and Europe has very few very large companies that are of recent vintage. However, those big companies that do exist have similar profits to large US companies. If you think there is some hard limit I'm curious to hear what you think is the mechanism.
3. Maybe, but this kind of funding always comes with the art of writing the right words, doing the right compliance, and sometimes knowing the right people and having a big and well known name. But maybe I was a bit too black-and-white.