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I built an AI company to save my open source project

timefold.ai

81–90 of 112 posts

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#81
Thank you for the hard work in this space! I think it is really important that there is a proper open source solution available.

I just found OptaPlanner and subsequently TimeFold few months ago, as I was searching for a solution for my wife's veterinary clinics employee scheduling problem. The problem is not big enough for anyone to pay for the solution, but big enough to cause stress for whom ever is dealing with manually doings the shifts.

It was interesting that there were a lot of online SaaS providers that claim to solve the problem but they just simply are not configurable for all kinds of constraints of a real workplace.

Unfortunately I also feel partially same with TimeFold, because designing those constraints really requires changing the way of thinking of many problems. While the engine is capable of doing what ever, there is a steep learning curve to do it.

So while the article mentions documentation, I would say that the documentation is far from sufficient for wide adaption.

Personally, I would have really needed documentation about a mental model of thinking about the problem, and then a ton of examples how to solve real employee scheduling problems. Problem written in a format which the business people use and then translated into an elegant constraint rule explained step by step.

I had to invest more than 40 hours to get a working MVP that solves real problems, not just those that are already coded in the example code. Most people are not willing to do that.

What I'm trying to say is that to making planner software popular, it should be also usable for trivial projects. I understand that it's hard to focus on everything, but just providing more information about real use cases and how they were solved and how to think about the design problems would make the market bigger, and bring you a lot more customers in the long run.

I just wonder how I might contribute to improve the documentation. I probably don't have deep enough understanding of the correct solution, but I will look into it.

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#82

Honestly, I'm still not sure how I feel about Red Hat/IBM's journey. On one hand, RH killed (i.e. "gave to IBM to rot away") a lot of products I liked (recently, the whole JBoss stack they had, see [1] for more details). On the other hand, a lot of the products that RH gave to IBM were really painful to use. Let me preface this by saying that I mean no disrespect to Geoffrey and his amazing work! And, also, I suspect…

Our goal is to make planning optimization easy. But planning optimization can be extremely complex. So it took us quite some time to make it easy. Timefold Solver is already a lot easier than OptaPlanner to use. And the Timefold REST APIs are even easier: if you have a vehicle routing or shift scheduling case on your hands, just send in your data and get the solution. But not all cases are easy... What kind of use ca…

Not OP, but in the past we experimented with OptaPlanner for manufacturing scheduling. I think the closest available example was project job scheduling, but we struggled to make it work with finer granularity time placement, it seemed to uselessy move jobs back and forth (IIRC because finishing one stage earlier didn't necessarily improve entire job time, but you didn't want it as constraint because sometimes it is useful to have gaps).

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#83
post #28

Geoffrey, thanks for sharing your story with us. OR sure is a weird niche. Good enough algorithms for solving these problems have existed for decades1, but we still see low adoption and your 95% estimate of the companies not optimizing their operations rings true. Similarly to you, I spent a short while trying to sell VRP optimization with an API business model, and what dawned on me was that most companies do not ha…

I always assumed it was due to (a lack of) scale for most companies? 1% improvement in container planning for Maersk is hundreds of millions of dollars per year, so they can have an entire team dedicated to that. Meanwhile at the other end of the scale, 1% improvement of job scheduling at $DAYJOB probably wouldn't even pay for its own ongoing costs, let alone the costs of setting it up.

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our goal is to make planning optimization easy. But planning optimization can be extremely complex. So it took us quite some time to make it easy. Timefold Solver is already a lot easier than OptaPlanner to use. And the Timefold REST APIs are even easier: if you have a vehicle routing or shift scheduling case on your hands, just send in your data and get the solution. But not all cases are easy... What kind of use ca…

Not OP, but in the past we experimented with OptaPlanner for manufacturing scheduling. I think the closest available example was project job scheduling, but we struggled to make it work with finer granularity time placement, it seemed to uselessy move jobs back and forth (IIRC because finishing one stage earlier didn't necessarily improve entire job time, but you didn't want it as constraint because sometimes it is u…

The Project Job Scheduling example was terrible. We deleted it, and replaced it with the much cleaner Food Packaging quickstart.

Out of all our quickstarts, Project Job Scheduling is - by far - the one I am least proud of. It was overfitted for a particular problem and - in hindsight - it didn't align well to real-world variants of Job Shop Scheduling that many people face. But before Food Packaging, it was all we had.

Sorry for the pain. Thanks for sharing these insights.

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#85
post #31
post #28

Geoffrey, thanks for sharing your story with us. OR sure is a weird niche. Good enough algorithms for solving these problems have existed for decades1, but we still see low adoption and your 95% estimate of the companies not optimizing their operations rings true. Similarly to you, I spent a short while trying to sell VRP optimization with an API business model, and what dawned on me was that most companies do not ha…

If nobody does something in a whole industry perhaps it's because it's not a differentiating factor. Do you have a link to the Swedish company? It just sounds like typical "software engineers know better" story where they go bankrupt after a few years because turns out the important bits are in other parts of the business.

Yes, this story is far too soothing to the software engineering ego to be actually true! Generally real world problems are messy, hard, and full of human problems. It's a little aggravating when 'software engineers know everything' stories like this are taken at face value and reinforce that mistaken idea.

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#86

Interesting story but what I don't get is this > Founders might get a wage to avoid personal financial stress How do you make a living as a founder if you don't get a wage? Is that really a norm? > but then also need skin in the game, typically by investing personally And also this. Does it assume that you will invest your savings or what exactly?

This is not the norm in the US.

In markets where capital is more scarce, people may want to avoid giving up more equity.

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#87
Hi, I loved your story! I also checked out the app, but it's giving me an error:

An error occurred in the Server Components render. The specific message is omitted in production builds to avoid leaking sensitive details. A digest property is included on this error instance which may provide additional details about the nature of the error.

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#89
post #81

Thank you for the hard work in this space! I think it is really important that there is a proper open source solution available. I just found OptaPlanner and subsequently TimeFold few months ago, as I was searching for a solution for my wife's veterinary clinics employee scheduling problem. The problem is not big enough for anyone to pay for the solution, but big enough to cause stress for whom ever is dealing with m…

Hi Tappio, read you loud and clear. We are actively looking into making it easier for all people to solve their planning problems. Our goal is to "free the world from wasteful scheduling" and we more than realize we can't do that alone. ;)

Re: I built an AI company to save my open source project

#90

I love that GOFAI companies are also calling themselves AI, because seriously why not. If a pile of linear algebra (fittingly trained on The Pile) can be AI, then so can optimizers and solvers.

Their marketing person needs a bonus!

I'll pass along the message internally ;)
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