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TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

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Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#81

Post by xiii1408 »

ziddoap wrote: post #72
xiii1408 wrote: post #51

It's another sock puppet study: https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.17831 Very similar methodology to an earlier study the government cited in their case against TikTok: https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-... There are a number of issues with these studies, one being that the way the sock puppet bots interact with content is not exactly organic. Typically they search for content in a conditioning phas…

While I am skeptical of what reasonable conclusions can be drawn from a study like this, they explain the methodology in the article. You said: > Typically [...] followed by random scrolling during which the recommended videos are collected and classified [...] Modern recommendation algorithms famously work by examining how long and how users engage with content, and there's none of that going on here. But they claim…

Perhaps I should have been more clear. It's TikTok, so of course the only way to collect recommendations is to watch videos. Some studies watch the whole video, some just watch part of it, but it's TikTok, so fundamentally you're watching a video.

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#82

Post by IncreasePosts »

9283409232 wrote: post #57
IncreasePosts wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that shows conservatives were so starved for rage content that they needed to latch onto the side-show of a side-show in order to scratch that itch. Sequestering your candidate away from any kind of challenge certainly is a strategy. I never said MAGA didn't say anything about Harris/walz. Is that what you took away from my post?

> Liberals love consuming Trump content, maybe even more than conservatives. Sort of like the Howard Stern effect. Because after they do, they can go post on Twitter and reddit about how stupid Trump is. > Conservatives didn't have that with Harris. Yes that is what I took from this. > Sequestering your candidate away from any kind of challenge certainly is a strategy. Interviews with Fox News and a public debate doe…

Harris had fewer than half the media appearances as Trump. There is nothing to debate on this front.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/trump-harris-tv-podca...

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#83

Post by ziddoap »

xiii1408 wrote: post #81
ziddoap wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am skeptical of what reasonable conclusions can be drawn from a study like this, they explain the methodology in the article. You said: > Typically [...] followed by random scrolling during which the recommended videos are collected and classified [...] Modern recommendation algorithms famously work by examining how long and how users engage with content, and there's none of that going on here. But they claim…

Perhaps I should have been more clear. It's TikTok, so of course the only way to collect recommendations is to watch videos. Some studies watch the whole video, some just watch part of it, but it's TikTok, so fundamentally you're watching a video.

I might just not be reading it properly. I've never used TikTok, I assumed by your description that they scraped video titles/transcripts/etc. from the recommendation page without any engagement on the video. (I suppose I should read the study you linked!)

When you say "how users engage with content, and there's none of that going on here", by "none of that", do you just mean likes/comments, that sort of thing?

I would usually consider watching as engaging with content, but if you mean additional engagement (as I would call it, anyways), that would make a lot more sense to me.

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#84

Post by 9283409232 »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #82
9283409232 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Liberals love consuming Trump content, maybe even more than conservatives. Sort of like the Howard Stern effect. Because after they do, they can go post on Twitter and reddit about how stupid Trump is. > Conservatives didn't have that with Harris. Yes that is what I took from this. > Sequestering your candidate away from any kind of challenge certainly is a strategy. Interviews with Fox News and a public debate doe…

Harris had fewer than half the media appearances as Trump. There is nothing to debate on this front. https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/trump-harris-tv-podca...

Doing less media != Running away from challenges. I'm sure all the right wing interviews and podcast appearances Trump did really threw him the hard questions.

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#85

Post by [deleted] »

xiii1408 wrote: post #81
ziddoap wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am skeptical of what reasonable conclusions can be drawn from a study like this, they explain the methodology in the article. You said: > Typically [...] followed by random scrolling during which the recommended videos are collected and classified [...] Modern recommendation algorithms famously work by examining how long and how users engage with content, and there's none of that going on here. But they claim…

Perhaps I should have been more clear. It's TikTok, so of course the only way to collect recommendations is to watch videos. Some studies watch the whole video, some just watch part of it, but it's TikTok, so fundamentally you're watching a video.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#86

Post by creato »

kenjackson wrote: post #65
twiclo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can make up my mind. They pushed insane ideologies. At the convention the other day not a single nominee said, "Maybe we shouldn't fund sex changes for illegal immigrant prisoners." In fact they supported it.

You realize this is a decision the courts made. Harris agreed to follow the law. That's it. And you know what -- these same laws were on the books under all four years Trump was President. See this document from the DoJ while Trump was President: https://www.justice.gov/d9/pages/attachments/2018/02/13/28_f...

A court saying something doesn't obligate everyone to agree that is the way it should be. That basic concept, applied to several other issues, explains most of what is happening now.

- Martin v. Boise. This was overturned, but for 6 years, insanity ruled.

- The general situation with asylum at the border. It's insane that millions of people can just walk across the border, turn themselves in to an immigration officer, tell a sad story (this included domestic violence according to the Biden administration...), get a court date ~10 years in the future, and just live your life in the US until then.

- Seeing clearly dangerous/crazy people with rap sheets a mile long, including violent offenses, released with slaps on the wrist for the 30th time, only to kill someone.

- Less insane but still questionable and a potent issue: various affirmative action laws/rulings, very "Harrison Bergeron"-esque diversity motivated laws/rulings.

If you force people to choose between the rule of law, and... that, then the rule of law might lose. That's what is happening now.

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#87

Post by xiii1408 »

ziddoap wrote: post #83
xiii1408 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. It's TikTok, so of course the only way to collect recommendations is to watch videos. Some studies watch the whole video, some just watch part of it, but it's TikTok, so fundamentally you're watching a video.

I might just not be reading it properly. I've never used TikTok, I assumed by your description that they scraped video titles/transcripts/etc. from the recommendation page without any engagement on the video. (I suppose I should read the study you linked!) When you say "how users engage with content, and there's none of that going on here" , by "none of that", do you just mean likes/comments, that sort of thing? I wo…

I think the key metric missing here is how long the user watches each video. Likes and replies are probably helpful too, but when I've used short-form video content apps like TikTok, Reels, and YouTube Shorts before, they've gotten a pretty good measure of me without me ever liking, replying, or following.

With the current methodology, the bot either watches the whole video, a fixed duration of it, or a random duration before swiping. The bot doesn't organically watch or swipe based on its interests like a human user would.

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#88

Post by likeabatterycar »

ziddoap wrote: post #78
likeabatterycar wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are incapable of identifying some of the insane positions that clearly lost them the 2024 election, I'm afraid you may be in a bubble and no amount of someone explaining it is going to help.

Or, consider that "insane" is a word that's excessive for pretty much every position of every candidate of every party, primarily used to generate immediate emotional responses and shutting down conversation. There are positions which I think are dumb, or potentially harmful, or counter to what I believe, etc. But there's rarely been a position I consider "insane" (from all parties!). If you're immediately jumping to…

That may be true, but what matters is perception. It doesn't take very much of the perception of insane to push the winner over the edge. Elections have been known to be decided over single issues. To take a position of "I can't possibly see anything wrong with any of our policies" after a resounding defeat is not very self-reflective.

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#89

Post by threeseed »

xiii1408 wrote: post #51

It's another sock puppet study: https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.17831 Very similar methodology to an earlier study the government cited in their case against TikTok: https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-... There are a number of issues with these studies, one being that the way the sock puppet bots interact with content is not exactly organic. Typically they search for content in a conditioning phas…

> Also, even if there _is_ a bias, it doesn't tell us why

Because that is a political discussion that will inevitably derail the point.

If there is identified bias then the platform must address it. Or it should be labelled a national security threat.

Re: TikTok's algorithm exhibited pro-Republican bias during 2024 presidential race

#90

Post by plorg »

The title here is deceptive and I'm not sure the study authors did a good job of characterizing their results. They found that Democrats were likely to see less Democrat-aligned content than Republicans were to see Republican-aligned content. But Republican-aligned as a category included both pro-Republican and anti-Democrat content and the big difference was that Democrats saw less anti-Republican and more anti-Democrat videos. Which may seem like a conspiracy until you imagine the amount of anti-Harris/"uncommitted" content that was on TikTok during the election cycle. Even if you think that have an edge to the a Republican ticket I don't think you could reasonably describe a video by a DSA guy decrying the bombing of Gaza as a pro-Republican video.

Perhaps more succinctly, there was more anti-Democrat material from both sides (and the binary clarification system is reductive in a way that obscures what's going on)

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