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List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

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Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#81

Post by oneshtein »

amelius wrote: post #49
Yeul wrote: post #38

36 hours is the standard in my country- it's called progress. A century ago it was probably 80 hours for everyone over 12 lol.

However, the free market dictates that you will be outcompeted by anyone who is willing to work 40+ hours. So much for progress.

If 4-day workers are 25% more productive than 5-day workers, or 5-day workers are 20% less productive than 4-day workers, then no.

While it's hard to increase productivity by 25%, it's not a problem for workers to drop productivity by 20%. Owners can work as much as they want, of course.

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#83

Post by IshKebab »

anotherhue wrote: post #74
IshKebab wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

36 hours is 5 days a week, unless you work ridiculously long days.

9 hours is considered ridiculously wrong?

Plus lunch, yes. No way I could do anything that involves thinking for that long. Menial tasks maybe.

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#84

Post by tsimionescu »

scarab92 wrote: post #79
tsimionescu wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, international worker solidarity should be the model we work for, as we did with the current 5-day work week. It was neither productivity studies nor economic competitiveness that solidified the 5-day work week, it was workers demanding it under threat of violence and agreeing (or being coerced) not to break strikes even internationally. Throughout human history, this has always been the only model that…

You’re living in the past. That model worked when people were much more equal in output, before the ambitious could leverage skills and tools to become an order of magnitude more productive than average. It’ll never work today, because there’s too many people in too many industries who outperform the average worker 10:1. Collective bargaining is quite unfair to those people and they’ll never accept it.

I very much doubt that is the problem. Lots of people would be happy for their more productive colleagues to get more money, if anyone asked them.

It's much more often managers who don't want to have this type of employee, because they fear for their positions or other similar issues. In particular, this happens via the absurd practice of refusing to give significant raises year to year, forcing the best workers to leave for a new company, taking all of their hard earned organizational knowledge.

Not to mention, I'm not talking about collective bargaining for salaries. This is about an economy-level change, not a company level or even industry level change. And it would benefit the best workers just as much as the worst.

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#85

Post by rsavage »

akdor1154 wrote: post #70
rsavage wrote: post #33

I am co-founder of a 5 year old tech startup with 50 staff that introduced a 4dww / 32hr work week a little over 2 years ago. Since are a lot of questions surrounding 4dww - Thought I might be able to offer some insights. 1. “four days but actually working longer” or “four days with reduced hours”. -- We offer 32hrs work week, rather than the standard 40hrs in our home country. This is generally taken as 4 days, but…

Which roles has it worked better for than others? Do you track engineering hours worked?

It's worked well with pretty role. However, for our Customer Success / Support team hours = hours out is more true than other roles. So for these roles its more about being able to attract people who are really good at their roles.

We don't track hours at all -- staff are expected to track their own hours and keep them to 32hrs. Occasionally something happens and people work longer hours in a week, however we then give them time off the following week.

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#86

Post by scarab92 »

rednafi wrote: post #56
rednafi wrote: post #35

Just give me five days of remote work—that’s all I ask. My job doesn’t require me to add to the traffic, yet there are middle managers rallying for RTO to maintain their relevance.

[flagged]

Companies don’t like RTO because most employees are less productive at home and will pretend to work rather than actually work.

It has nothing to do with middle managers.

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#87

Post by isthatafact »

crimsoneer wrote: post #53

Just like remote work, this turns into a culture war issue every time (and the comments turn into a cesspit). I really wish people would stop arguing and let the market show us what's actually more effective.

> "let the market show us what's actually more effective"

I am not sure what are the mechanisms for that. Would that simply be what maximizes short term profits?

It sort of sounds like a suggestion to remove all restrictions on the work week so that the free market can choose the winning system.

Why not decide instead to take a more human approach where people can work productively and still have enough workless time to rest and be healthy and also have time and energy for hobbies, family, exercise, etc.?

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#88

Post by rednafi »

scarab92 wrote: post #86
rednafi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Companies don’t like RTO because most employees are less productive at home and will pretend to work rather than actually work. It has nothing to do with middle managers.

Companies made record profit during the covid lockdown.

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#89

Post by scarab92 »

rednafi wrote: post #88
scarab92 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies don’t like RTO because most employees are less productive at home and will pretend to work rather than actually work. It has nothing to do with middle managers.

Companies made record profit during the covid lockdown.

Because demand and prices went up.

Honestly, you’re approaching on conspiracy theory territory with some of your beliefs about how the world works.

Re: List of 200 UK companies that moved to 4-day working week

#90

Post by scarab92 »

iterateoften wrote: post #64
scarab92 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diminishing returns doesn’t invalidate their point. Working more hours will always produce more output, even if the marginal increase in output decreases.

It invalidates their point because what’s stopping you from saying say “you can be outcompeted by someone willing to work 168 hours a week.” it’s not diminishing positive returns. Eventually you work so much the returns go negative. According to you it doesn’t matter if on the 49th consecutive hour the worker is basically dead and unable to come into work the next week. Overwork leads to loss of productivity and poss…

You’re being sensationalist to try to make a point that doesn’t stand on its own.

Most studies show that productivity per hour doesn’t go down until about 60 hours, or higher for low skilled work.

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